5 ms·

Does this spell Google moving away just a little bit from Java in the future?

by m3rc 10y ago

mason240 10y ago
That would be huge win for Microsoft, presumably if Android apps are written in C# they will be easy to port or have shared libraries with windows apps.
- m3rc 10y ago
  Is that something Google wants? I don't see the advantage for them short of adding on C# devs
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    C# offers more support for memory friendly coding and performance than Java, which could ultimately improve Android's performance. Of course, this would only work if they switch languages, which I don't see the Android team doing willingly without upper management "help".
    - snoman 10y ago
      I don't think they have to switch languages. With official support/talent working on Xamarin.Android (which is already great) coming from both MS and Google, that'd be enough to make C# on android a sure thing.
    - geodel 10y ago
      Other than some hypothetical legal advantage in Oracle vs Google case. C# in place of Java would be as likely supported by management as MS Exchange/Outlook in place of Gmail
      - pjmlp 10y ago
        That was my point, given the past history to changing language proposals.
    - bitmapbrother 10y ago
      Do you have any metrics to prove your baseless assumptions?
      - xorxornop 10y ago
        They said "has support for", not "is". This is a natural consequence of having value types (structs). You can even change the bit packing and other layout properties of structs.
        bitmapbrother 10y ago
        Are you replying to the proper comment? In any case, he stated that an Android C# app would be more performant than an app coded in Java without supplying any metrics to prove his point. >This is a natural consequence of having value types (structs). You can even change the bit packing and other layout properties of structs. And yet the JVM still beats the CLR in performance.
        int_19h 10y ago
        > And yet the JVM still beats the CLR in performance. On mobile memory-constrained devices? Can you share a benchmark demonstrating that?
        bitmapbrother 10y ago
        The JVM reference inferred non mobile.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        There are lots of J2ME in use, in spite of Android.
        int_19h 10y ago
        Yes, and it has always had horrible perf, especially when it came to memory. Standard techniques to reduce memory pressure included never ever instantiating your classes. So basically everything is a static method, and the only data types you can use are primitives, since Java doesn't have structs (exactly the problem that this thread pointed out at the beginning). So people would instead preallocate global arrays of primitives, and referenced their elements by index, if they needed to pass something like a record or an object around.
  - criddell 10y ago
    It's a mighty good option to have when you are negotiating with Microsoft. Imagine Google offering to Microsoft that they would adopt Microsoft development tools and technologies iff Microsoft kills Windows Phone.
    - karlmdavis 10y ago
      Why on earth would Google care enough right now about MS' phone efforts for that to be something they're actively seeking? I think it's far more likely that any movement towards C# on Android would be motivated by: 1) perhaps enough devs are asking for it, and 2) it would give them extra leverage in negotiations with Oracle about Java.
      - criddell 10y ago
        Google would be foolish to think Microsoft is down for good in the phone market. If this is something they would ever consider negotiating for, they wouldn't wait until Microsoft is strong. You do it when they are weak. Plus, if they make a deal with Microsoft, Samsung can't come along and make the same deal with Microsoft for Tizen tools.
        bitmapbrother 10y ago
        The only foolish company would be Microsoft for thinking they still have a chance in mobile. Besides, they've already capitulated as their marketshare is below 1% and continuing to decline. It's all about the mobile ecosystems and it's something that Microsoft and Samsung will ever have.
    - bitmapbrother 10y ago
      So you want Google to let Microsoft control their mobile development strategy if Microsoft promises to shut down their, less than 1% market share, mobile OS? Right.
markdoubleyou 10y ago
Jon Skeet (C# guru who works at Google, for those unfamiliar with C# rock stars) was interviewed on Software Engineering Daily, and his response to this question was basically, "uh, no." Google isn't shifting their focus away from Java/C++ any time in the foreseeable future. (You might see improved support for .NET Core in Google Compute Engine, though.) https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2016/09/20/cloud-clients-with-jon-skeet/ https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2016/09/20/cloud-client...
- m3rc 10y ago
  That's an interesting interview, thanks.
geodel 10y ago
Well Google is moving towards Go. Lot of things that could be Java are in Go lately.
afsina 10y ago
Search for Flutter and Dart. I do not think they will use .Net
- pjmlp 10y ago
  That isn't going anywhere, they are just trying to save Dart.

Does this spell Google moving away just a little bit from Java in the future?

by m3rc 10y ago

Does this spell Google moving away just a little bit from Java in the future?

That would be huge win for Microsoft, presumably if Android apps are written in C# they will be easy to port or have shared libraries with windows apps.

m3rc 10y ago
Is that something Google wants? I don't see the advantage for them short of adding on C# devs
- pjmlp 10y ago
  C# offers more support for memory friendly coding and performance than Java, which could ultimately improve Android's performance. Of course, this would only work if they switch languages, which I don't see the Android team doing willingly without upper management "help".
  - snoman 10y ago
    I don't think they have to switch languages. With official support/talent working on Xamarin.Android (which is already great) coming from both MS and Google, that'd be enough to make C# on android a sure thing.
  - geodel 10y ago
    Other than some hypothetical legal advantage in Oracle vs Google case. C# in place of Java would be as likely supported by management as MS Exchange/Outlook in place of Gmail
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      That was my point, given the past history to changing language proposals.
  - bitmapbrother 10y ago
    Do you have any metrics to prove your baseless assumptions?
    - xorxornop 10y ago
      They said "has support for", not "is". This is a natural consequence of having value types (structs). You can even change the bit packing and other layout properties of structs.
      - bitmapbrother 10y ago
        Are you replying to the proper comment? In any case, he stated that an Android C# app would be more performant than an app coded in Java without supplying any metrics to prove his point. >This is a natural consequence of having value types (structs). You can even change the bit packing and other layout properties of structs. And yet the JVM still beats the CLR in performance.
        int_19h 10y ago
        > And yet the JVM still beats the CLR in performance. On mobile memory-constrained devices? Can you share a benchmark demonstrating that?
        bitmapbrother 10y ago
        The JVM reference inferred non mobile.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        There are lots of J2ME in use, in spite of Android.
        int_19h 10y ago
        Yes, and it has always had horrible perf, especially when it came to memory. Standard techniques to reduce memory pressure included never ever instantiating your classes. So basically everything is a static method, and the only data types you can use are primitives, since Java doesn't have structs (exactly the problem that this thread pointed out at the beginning). So people would instead preallocate global arrays of primitives, and referenced their elements by index, if they needed to pass something like a record or an object around.
- criddell 10y ago
  It's a mighty good option to have when you are negotiating with Microsoft. Imagine Google offering to Microsoft that they would adopt Microsoft development tools and technologies iff Microsoft kills Windows Phone.
  - karlmdavis 10y ago
    Why on earth would Google care enough right now about MS' phone efforts for that to be something they're actively seeking? I think it's far more likely that any movement towards C# on Android would be motivated by: 1) perhaps enough devs are asking for it, and 2) it would give them extra leverage in negotiations with Oracle about Java.
    - criddell 10y ago
      Google would be foolish to think Microsoft is down for good in the phone market. If this is something they would ever consider negotiating for, they wouldn't wait until Microsoft is strong. You do it when they are weak. Plus, if they make a deal with Microsoft, Samsung can't come along and make the same deal with Microsoft for Tizen tools.
      - bitmapbrother 10y ago
        The only foolish company would be Microsoft for thinking they still have a chance in mobile. Besides, they've already capitulated as their marketshare is below 1% and continuing to decline. It's all about the mobile ecosystems and it's something that Microsoft and Samsung will ever have.
  - bitmapbrother 10y ago
    So you want Google to let Microsoft control their mobile development strategy if Microsoft promises to shut down their, less than 1% market share, mobile OS? Right.

markdoubleyou 10y ago

Jon Skeet (C# guru who works at Google, for those unfamiliar with C# rock stars) was interviewed on Software Engineering Daily, and his response to this question was basically, "uh, no." Google isn't shifting their focus away from Java/C++ any time in the foreseeable future. (You might see improved support for .NET Core in Google Compute Engine, though.) https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2016/09/20/cloud-clients-with-jon-skeet/ https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2016/09/20/cloud-client...

m3rc 10y ago
That's an interesting interview, thanks.

geodel 10y ago

Well Google is moving towards Go. Lot of things that could be Java are in Go lately.

afsina 10y ago

Search for Flutter and Dart. I do not think they will use .Net

pjmlp 10y ago
That isn't going anywhere, they are just trying to save Dart.