4 ms·

"(the democracy can be fixed through perfect information)" I think what's being advocated is not perfect information, but rather that we find a way to weld the

by rfrey 10y ago

"(the democracy can be fixed through perfect information)" I think what's being advocated is not perfect information, but rather that we find a way to weld the bullshit-detection-switch to "on" in the vast majority of people, so they don't selectively switch it off when viewing information that fits their current mental model of the world.

mc32 10y ago
In theory (assessing it mentally) that sounds like a good pursuit. I'm not sure we can get people who are entrenched to change how they evaluate information/disinformation, however. It's not a right left issue. People will complain about say Breitbart (that have opinion pieces which are to put it mildly, out of synch with most republicans) but then don't see the same kind of thing coming out of HuffPo or even some NPR programs like CodeSwitch which can also put out opinion pieces which strain logic.
usefulcat 10y ago
Exactly. Information is not the problem, or at least not the most fundamental one. The problem is that humans have a natural bias towards believing anything that agrees with one's existing worldview, and a natural bias against believing anything contrary to that worldview. In short, the underlying problem really is a function of how our brains work. Social media may not be the cause, but IMO it's definitely not helping either. In the past, the kinds of political disagreements you see on social media would almost always have happened in person instead (or over the phone at least). I suspect most people find it a lot easier to be a jerk online than in person.
benmcnelly 10y ago
The problem here, is people are willing to brush aside facts that are most easily left to interpretation based on world view, for the larger sake of their cause, where the ends justify the means. As a very middle of the road moderate (if that's the right word? Maybe it's something else.) type, I clearly see this disregard on both the liberal and conservative side. Much in the same way an agnostic has to sit and watch mommy atheist and daddy religion fight. Examples: 1. Trump is a racist Liberal >> Common sense and all evidence point towards him having and continuing to have racist and bigoted behavior. Electing him would empower racists and harm the country. Conservative >> Common sense and all evidence point towards the biased media fixating on his conservative views of upholding the law (ILLEGAL immigration) and trying to paint him and anyone else with those views as racist. Also, he is a flamboyant TV personality, I am more than willing to overlook his gaffs because at least he says what he thinks. Electing him would help reverse the damage caused over the last 8 years. Something Else >> Trump is a jerk and probably has lots of personal issues, and may indeed be a racist. While I am sure there is a small minority of people that like his ideas based on a place of hate, it seems there are a lot of people that have an ideological reason to support him based on the changes they want to see made. Electing him seems like a risky move, and may destabilize things. 2. Obama is a Muslim Liberal >> Obama's officially stated religion is Christianity. Yes, he is friendly towards Muslims, why wouldn't he be. We have a long way to go towards repairing our relationships and reputation at home and abroad as being inclusive and tolerant of ALL lifestyles, beliefs, and religions. Conservative >> Obama's actions in office show a disregard of his duties to protect Americans at home and abroad from the threat that is radical Islam. Something Else >> Obama is a classy guy, and he is not afraid to mix it up with people no matter what people think. Not sure about things like the Iran deal are the smartest but I very sure he (and some other decently smart people) have our best interest in mind, however, I am not sure if they are making the best decisions. I am unsure that any amount of publicly available facts about national defence, economy, Middle East past and present tensions and issues, and Iran, will make me better able to judge this. Conclusion: Just because you have facts, doesn't mean you have an understanding. Wisdom and knowledge are for sure bolstered by each other, but not synonymous. It seems to me both sides have a righteous indignation against the other. It will take compassion and compromise to truly move forward as one human race.

by rfrey 10y ago

mc32 10y ago

In theory (assessing it mentally) that sounds like a good pursuit. I'm not sure we can get people who are entrenched to change how they evaluate information/disinformation, however. It's not a right left issue. People will complain about say Breitbart (that have opinion pieces which are to put it mildly, out of synch with most republicans) but then don't see the same kind of thing coming out of HuffPo or even some NPR programs like CodeSwitch which can also put out opinion pieces which strain logic.

usefulcat 10y ago

Exactly. Information is not the problem, or at least not the most fundamental one. The problem is that humans have a natural bias towards believing anything that agrees with one's existing worldview, and a natural bias against believing anything contrary to that worldview. In short, the underlying problem really is a function of how our brains work. Social media may not be the cause, but IMO it's definitely not helping either. In the past, the kinds of political disagreements you see on social media would almost always have happened in person instead (or over the phone at least). I suspect most people find it a lot easier to be a jerk online than in person.

benmcnelly 10y ago

The problem here, is people are willing to brush aside facts that are most easily left to interpretation based on world view, for the larger sake of their cause, where the ends justify the means. As a very middle of the road moderate (if that's the right word? Maybe it's something else.) type, I clearly see this disregard on both the liberal and conservative side. Much in the same way an agnostic has to sit and watch mommy atheist and daddy religion fight. Examples: 1. Trump is a racist Liberal >> Common sense and all evidence point towards him having and continuing to have racist and bigoted behavior. Electing him would empower racists and harm the country. Conservative >> Common sense and all evidence point towards the biased media fixating on his conservative views of upholding the law (ILLEGAL immigration) and trying to paint him and anyone else with those views as racist. Also, he is a flamboyant TV personality, I am more than willing to overlook his gaffs because at least he says what he thinks. Electing him would help reverse the damage caused over the last 8 years. Something Else >> Trump is a jerk and probably has lots of personal issues, and may indeed be a racist. While I am sure there is a small minority of people that like his ideas based on a place of hate, it seems there are a lot of people that have an ideological reason to support him based on the changes they want to see made. Electing him seems like a risky move, and may destabilize things. 2. Obama is a Muslim Liberal >> Obama's officially stated religion is Christianity. Yes, he is friendly towards Muslims, why wouldn't he be. We have a long way to go towards repairing our relationships and reputation at home and abroad as being inclusive and tolerant of ALL lifestyles, beliefs, and religions. Conservative >> Obama's actions in office show a disregard of his duties to protect Americans at home and abroad from the threat that is radical Islam. Something Else >> Obama is a classy guy, and he is not afraid to mix it up with people no matter what people think. Not sure about things like the Iran deal are the smartest but I very sure he (and some other decently smart people) have our best interest in mind, however, I am not sure if they are making the best decisions. I am unsure that any amount of publicly available facts about national defence, economy, Middle East past and present tensions and issues, and Iran, will make me better able to judge this. Conclusion: Just because you have facts, doesn't mean you have an understanding. Wisdom and knowledge are for sure bolstered by each other, but not synonymous. It seems to me both sides have a righteous indignation against the other. It will take compassion and compromise to truly move forward as one human race.