6 ms·

I don't get why people downvote this post. It's like everyone completely forgot about Halloween documents[1]. We should be very careful with Microsoft. [1] -

by ss248 10y ago

I don't get why people downvote this post. It's like everyone completely forgot about Halloween documents[1]. We should be very careful with Microsoft. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents

cwyers 10y ago
Or everyone very much remembers the Halloween documents and it doesn't add anything to the conversation to, without an attempt to say anything substantive about the documents or the current event, remind all of us about something that nobody has ever forgotten. You see four or five of these posts at least on any major Microsoft thread on HN, and they add nothing to the discussion.
- snerbles 10y ago
  They add a reminder of history, for those of you who are quick to forget.
- xenihn 10y ago
  I'd never heard of these documents before.
- camelspade 10y ago
  I had never heard of it either until now
andyjohnson0 10y ago
That was 1998. Eighteen years ago.
- spacemanmatt 10y ago
  Many of us were practicing professionals then and it's far from healed. People need to understand history.
  - andyjohnson0 10y ago
    In 1998 I'd been a professional developer for over five years. I remember the Halloween documents. I agree with you that it is important to understand history - but things change and I also think its healthy to eventually move on.
    - ionised 10y ago
      It's healthy to move on if given enough time wounds have healed. Moving on without a good reason is naive and asking to be made a fool of again. Corporations are not people, they are borderline sociopathic like people though and need to be brought to task and constantly hounded and harassed to prevent them becoming complacent in their social responsibility. In Microsoft's case, many people believe they keep showing their true colours from time to time.
- ss248 10y ago
  Do you really think they have changed? They got this "We are good guys now" talk going on recently and I'm not against it, but I have lost all trust in them, they have to gain it back and can only prove themselves with actions now. On a side note, I'm also displeased with microsoft's products I'm almost forced to use. Can you imagine that uninstallation of Visual Studio 2015 from SSD takes 20 minutes? And it doesn't even fully uninstall it. Windows updates are no better. Really makes you wonder if it's still 1998 at Microsoft.
  - andyjohnson0 10y ago
    Yes, I do think they changed. People come and go and corporate culture changes with them. > I have lost all trust in them, they have to gain it back and can only prove themselves with actions now Question: what actual actions could they take that would cause you to change your mind about them?
    - ss248 10y ago
      I think it's foolish to believe someone, who lied to you before, only based on words. I agree, people come and go, but if you are "new blood" you can only do so much. But I not against Microsoft in particular. They are rich and powerful. It would be good, if they are really good guys now. I give them a chance to prove themselves. But i don't expect much. >what actual actions could they take that would cause you to change your mind about them? Maybe start making good products? What more can they do? And going back to "new blood" point again, do you think noone in Visual Studio devteam noticed that uninstallation taking 20 minutes? I'm 100% sure that there is guy who did, but he just cannot do anything. He have no power to change things. "It's working now somehow, so don't even think about touching it." And everything is like that at Microsoft. And that whole telemetry stuff in win10. Every single option (telemetry/internet search/ads etc) is turned off, yet i open up wireshark and still see it calling home every time i type something in start menu. It's like they don't respect me and think that i'm stupid. Why it has to be this way? "We are different now, but we are still the same." And nothing has changed. Pretty sad.
      - 10y ago
- fetbaffe 10y ago
  Obligatory: "Microsoft killed my Pappy" http://www.hanselman.com/blog/MicrosoftKilledMyPappy.aspx http://www.hanselman.com/blog/MicrosoftKilledMyPappy.aspx
13of40 10y ago
It's hard to find someone who was there as an intern in 1998, much less in a leadership position.

by ss248 10y ago

cwyers 10y ago

Or everyone very much remembers the Halloween documents and it doesn't add anything to the conversation to, without an attempt to say anything substantive about the documents or the current event, remind all of us about something that nobody has ever forgotten. You see four or five of these posts at least on any major Microsoft thread on HN, and they add nothing to the discussion.

snerbles 10y ago
They add a reminder of history, for those of you who are quick to forget.
xenihn 10y ago
I'd never heard of these documents before.
camelspade 10y ago
I had never heard of it either until now

andyjohnson0 10y ago

That was 1998. Eighteen years ago.

spacemanmatt 10y ago
Many of us were practicing professionals then and it's far from healed. People need to understand history.
- andyjohnson0 10y ago
  In 1998 I'd been a professional developer for over five years. I remember the Halloween documents. I agree with you that it is important to understand history - but things change and I also think its healthy to eventually move on.
  - ionised 10y ago
    It's healthy to move on if given enough time wounds have healed. Moving on without a good reason is naive and asking to be made a fool of again. Corporations are not people, they are borderline sociopathic like people though and need to be brought to task and constantly hounded and harassed to prevent them becoming complacent in their social responsibility. In Microsoft's case, many people believe they keep showing their true colours from time to time.
ss248 10y ago
Do you really think they have changed? They got this "We are good guys now" talk going on recently and I'm not against it, but I have lost all trust in them, they have to gain it back and can only prove themselves with actions now. On a side note, I'm also displeased with microsoft's products I'm almost forced to use. Can you imagine that uninstallation of Visual Studio 2015 from SSD takes 20 minutes? And it doesn't even fully uninstall it. Windows updates are no better. Really makes you wonder if it's still 1998 at Microsoft.
- andyjohnson0 10y ago
  Yes, I do think they changed. People come and go and corporate culture changes with them. > I have lost all trust in them, they have to gain it back and can only prove themselves with actions now Question: what actual actions could they take that would cause you to change your mind about them?
  - ss248 10y ago
    I think it's foolish to believe someone, who lied to you before, only based on words. I agree, people come and go, but if you are "new blood" you can only do so much. But I not against Microsoft in particular. They are rich and powerful. It would be good, if they are really good guys now. I give them a chance to prove themselves. But i don't expect much. >what actual actions could they take that would cause you to change your mind about them? Maybe start making good products? What more can they do? And going back to "new blood" point again, do you think noone in Visual Studio devteam noticed that uninstallation taking 20 minutes? I'm 100% sure that there is guy who did, but he just cannot do anything. He have no power to change things. "It's working now somehow, so don't even think about touching it." And everything is like that at Microsoft. And that whole telemetry stuff in win10. Every single option (telemetry/internet search/ads etc) is turned off, yet i open up wireshark and still see it calling home every time i type something in start menu. It's like they don't respect me and think that i'm stupid. Why it has to be this way? "We are different now, but we are still the same." And nothing has changed. Pretty sad.
    - 10y ago
fetbaffe 10y ago
Obligatory: "Microsoft killed my Pappy" http://www.hanselman.com/blog/MicrosoftKilledMyPappy.aspx http://www.hanselman.com/blog/MicrosoftKilledMyPappy.aspx

13of40 10y ago

It's hard to find someone who was there as an intern in 1998, much less in a leadership position.