5 ms·

This is really an iPad running MacOS, with everything soldered on, zero upgradeability and near-zero repairability. That's the antithesis of a "professional" ma

This is really an iPad running MacOS, with everything soldered on, zero upgradeability and near-zero repairability. That's the antithesis of a "professional" machine. I wonder if we'll see a similar trend with the mac pro if Apple doesn't decide to scrap it completely. We run quite a few mac pros and macbook pros at work, so this has us thinking hard.

kalleboo 10y ago
They already have an iPad they call "Pro". "Pro" doesn't mean anything to Apple anymore. (unless you want to go cynical and say it means Profits)
- hellofunk 10y ago
  At least in the iPad, the "Pro" actually means something. The iPad Pro is more powerful than any laptop by any manufacturer made before 3 years ago. For the same size and weight, you can get a non-Pro iPad Air 2, which is cheaper but lacking in that ridiculous processor and graphics power The "Pro" iPad, in addition to these considerable spec improvements, also supports their proprietary stylus for graphics professionals. I think the "Pro" word is not as clear in the Mac line now as it is in the iPad line.
wodenokoto 10y ago
I imagine the majority of professionals that use computers as part of their professional work don't even know what an SSD is or has given any thought to its upgradability.
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  A lot of people know how to add a bigger disk or more RAM. Or they know somebody who knows.
  - lttlrck 10y ago
    Evidently not enough for Apple to make design/cost concessions though.
    - maxxxxx 10y ago
      As long as they can coerce people into buying machines with higher spec than they need right now "just in case", it's good business. I think it's the same thinking that makes them not having an SD card slot.
  - overcast 10y ago
    I think you're vastly overestimating the knowledge of end users. Been working on the IT side of things for the better part of fifteen years. Majority of people clueless, including our entire engineering department. That's why IT exists.
    - maxxxxx 10y ago
      Interesting. At work we get our machines from corporate IT but I know plenty of people who have replaced disks, memory or replaced DVD drives with a second disk. Now that I think of it, I helped all those people, so maybe it's just me.
      - overcast 10y ago
        The user base here, much like many niche places on the internet, is a very unique sampling of individuals. Most people have absolutely no clue about what is going on inside a computer.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
  - snowwrestler 10y ago
    I'm not a computer hardware guy, but even I figured out how to add more RAM and a new hard disk to my old Macbook Pro. That said, I added it last year to my late-2008 Macbook Pro so that I could keep using it for simple stuff at home like browsing HN and watching YouTube. At work, my professional machines get replaced every few years, so I've never had to monkey with the insides. They're capital assets, and once the depreciation is fully taken, there's no point in holding onto them. We sell them and get new ones. So the question is, what does it mean to be a "professional" developer?
rayiner 10y ago
Why is upgradability inherent in professional? I've never worked somewhere that upgrades work machines. Every couple of years we get new ones.
- EpicEng 10y ago
  We upgrade the SSD for every dev. 1TB instead of a paltry 256GB.
  - fufonzo 10y ago
    If you bought it with 1TB already in it, you wouldn't have to upgrade anything. ;) It would be nice to be able to upgrade, but really, it's not a dealbreaker for me. I really enjoy developing on Mac and I needed to upgrade for my AIr, so I bought a new one of these. Windows is still lacking on the dev side (though I'm hoping it gets there soon), and Linux isn't quite where I need it to be for my personal stuff.
    - EpicEng 10y ago
      >If you bought it with 1TB already in it, you wouldn't have to upgrade anything. ;) You're right; it would just cost an absurd amount of money considering what a 1TB SSD actually goes for. The procedure takes all of ten minutes, well worth it. I actually can't stand doing real work in OSX, I use Windows. I just like the hardware.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- gambiting 10y ago
  I work at one of the largest game developers in the world, and we regularly update our desktop workstations - with better GPUs, more ram, I've recently had yet another 1TB SSD installed. The 6 core/12 threaded Xeons are good enough and they don't need upgrades, but everything else is a fair game.
- scholia 10y ago
  Did they ever do repairs? Upgradability also includes repairability. If you have a fleet of Dell Latitudes or ThinkPads, for example, you give users a "new" one for a broken one, and you can often repair it by swapping in parts from other broken ones. SSD upgrades are simple, and you can also upgrade laptops that come with 4GB up to 8, 12, 16 or sometimes 32GB depending on what the user needs.
eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago
There is a lot to be annoyed with on the new MBP, but upgradability has not been a feature for Apple across almost all product types (including "Pro" models), for many years. This is not news. It's not the antithesis of a professional machine just because you say it is.
trymas 10y ago
Personally I have no problems with upgradeability as I tend to use my electronics until their last breath and I have no need and I am too cheap to upgrade. Without any upgradeability it means if something breaks - toss it to the bin. It is not ecological, nor sustainable. I loath Apple's power bricks - cable torn even though you cared it like a baby? Toss it to the bin. I really hope that they try to fix cables for bricks sent under warranty and sell as refurbished, otherwise it's incredibly wastefull.

kalleboo 10y ago

They already have an iPad they call "Pro". "Pro" doesn't mean anything to Apple anymore. (unless you want to go cynical and say it means Profits)

hellofunk 10y ago
At least in the iPad, the "Pro" actually means something. The iPad Pro is more powerful than any laptop by any manufacturer made before 3 years ago. For the same size and weight, you can get a non-Pro iPad Air 2, which is cheaper but lacking in that ridiculous processor and graphics power The "Pro" iPad, in addition to these considerable spec improvements, also supports their proprietary stylus for graphics professionals. I think the "Pro" word is not as clear in the Mac line now as it is in the iPad line.

wodenokoto 10y ago

I imagine the majority of professionals that use computers as part of their professional work don't even know what an SSD is or has given any thought to its upgradability.

maxxxxx 10y ago
A lot of people know how to add a bigger disk or more RAM. Or they know somebody who knows.
- lttlrck 10y ago
  Evidently not enough for Apple to make design/cost concessions though.
  - maxxxxx 10y ago
    As long as they can coerce people into buying machines with higher spec than they need right now "just in case", it's good business. I think it's the same thinking that makes them not having an SD card slot.
- overcast 10y ago
  I think you're vastly overestimating the knowledge of end users. Been working on the IT side of things for the better part of fifteen years. Majority of people clueless, including our entire engineering department. That's why IT exists.
  - maxxxxx 10y ago
    Interesting. At work we get our machines from corporate IT but I know plenty of people who have replaced disks, memory or replaced DVD drives with a second disk. Now that I think of it, I helped all those people, so maybe it's just me.
    - overcast 10y ago
      The user base here, much like many niche places on the internet, is a very unique sampling of individuals. Most people have absolutely no clue about what is going on inside a computer.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
- snowwrestler 10y ago
  I'm not a computer hardware guy, but even I figured out how to add more RAM and a new hard disk to my old Macbook Pro. That said, I added it last year to my late-2008 Macbook Pro so that I could keep using it for simple stuff at home like browsing HN and watching YouTube. At work, my professional machines get replaced every few years, so I've never had to monkey with the insides. They're capital assets, and once the depreciation is fully taken, there's no point in holding onto them. We sell them and get new ones. So the question is, what does it mean to be a "professional" developer?

rayiner 10y ago

Why is upgradability inherent in professional? I've never worked somewhere that upgrades work machines. Every couple of years we get new ones.

EpicEng 10y ago
We upgrade the SSD for every dev. 1TB instead of a paltry 256GB.
- fufonzo 10y ago
  If you bought it with 1TB already in it, you wouldn't have to upgrade anything. ;) It would be nice to be able to upgrade, but really, it's not a dealbreaker for me. I really enjoy developing on Mac and I needed to upgrade for my AIr, so I bought a new one of these. Windows is still lacking on the dev side (though I'm hoping it gets there soon), and Linux isn't quite where I need it to be for my personal stuff.
  - EpicEng 10y ago
    >If you bought it with 1TB already in it, you wouldn't have to upgrade anything. ;) You're right; it would just cost an absurd amount of money considering what a 1TB SSD actually goes for. The procedure takes all of ten minutes, well worth it. I actually can't stand doing real work in OSX, I use Windows. I just like the hardware.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
gambiting 10y ago
I work at one of the largest game developers in the world, and we regularly update our desktop workstations - with better GPUs, more ram, I've recently had yet another 1TB SSD installed. The 6 core/12 threaded Xeons are good enough and they don't need upgrades, but everything else is a fair game.
scholia 10y ago
Did they ever do repairs? Upgradability also includes repairability. If you have a fleet of Dell Latitudes or ThinkPads, for example, you give users a "new" one for a broken one, and you can often repair it by swapping in parts from other broken ones. SSD upgrades are simple, and you can also upgrade laptops that come with 4GB up to 8, 12, 16 or sometimes 32GB depending on what the user needs.

eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago

There is a lot to be annoyed with on the new MBP, but upgradability has not been a feature for Apple across almost all product types (including "Pro" models), for many years. This is not news. It's not the antithesis of a professional machine just because you say it is.

trymas 10y ago

Personally I have no problems with upgradeability as I tend to use my electronics until their last breath and I have no need and I am too cheap to upgrade. Without any upgradeability it means if something breaks - toss it to the bin. It is not ecological, nor sustainable. I loath Apple's power bricks - cable torn even though you cared it like a baby? Toss it to the bin. I really hope that they try to fix cables for bricks sent under warranty and sell as refurbished, otherwise it's incredibly wastefull.