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> Frankly anyone posting on a tech site that can't get it up and running adequately should be embarassed. And this is a big reason why so many people still don

> Frankly anyone posting on a tech site that can't get it up and running adequately should be embarassed. And this is a big reason why so many people still don't want to use linux. The "Why aren't you as smart as I am" attitude isn't as strong as it used to be, but it's still there. It turns off users. Nobody wants to use software when the other users are going to treat them like idiots. There are still many complicated problems to get linux up and running, and being a jerk ignores those problems, rather than helps solve them.

Nursie 10y ago
I'm not asking why people aren't as smart as I am. I'm not even trying to be controversial here. This is not a "user" we're talking about, this is not beginners help on reddit somewhere, this is HN. If you can't install linux on some reasonably generic pc hardware in this day and age, and you consider yourself a hacker or coder, you probably ought to be a little embarrassed. Certainly not proud as some seem to be. If I was interviewing someone for a role and asked them for their thougts on using linux and got "well I usually give up after a few hours trying to install it" I'd look elsewhere.
- pdimitar 10y ago
  You are missing something very important here. I can setup almost every Linux I can think of for desktop / everyday usage. My relevant question is: "Is it worth my time?", and most of the time, it's not. Look, it's fine if you breathe Linux in your free time and you don't watch movies or play games, or nail your girlfriend, or even watch the ceiling in half-meditative state with all lights out. That's not sarcasm. Everyone has the right to do what they want with their free time. But many of us are hackers / coders AND have a happy personal life and don't want to bring their work to their free time. And want to make the best use of their work time, too. Linux gets the job done and I very much like my XFCE 4.x on my virtual Debian, but it's still far away from a full-blown user OS on the desktop. Numerous articles agree with this fact.
  - Nursie 10y ago
    Hey, I never said you have to like it, never claimed it would meet your needs, never claimed you should convert, never claimed it was better than windows, never claimed you need to spend your free time doing anything. It's a simple comment - if you're working in tech in any capacity and you can't install linux satisfactorily, that really is nothing to be proud of in the modern day and age.
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  > I'm not asking why people aren't as smart as I am. Not directly, but you are being condescending to someone who has legitimate issues. Just because someone is on HN doesn't mean they are great with linux, or that they are even a technical person. Maybe he's got a different skillset, and doesn't like dicking around with shitty config files, obscure error messages, and jerks that tell them they should be "embarrassed" for not being omniscient. Can you tell me the best way to pull HE levels from a GE MRI's MM? If not, are you going to spend a lot of time looking it up just because? Why aren't you embarrassed that you don't know that? > If I was interviewing someone for a role and asked them for their thougts on using linux and got "well I usually give up after a few hours trying to install it" I'd look elsewhere. Depends on the role. If it was a linux-admin job, absolutely. If it was for a job in HR, then I wouldn't care at all.
  - Nursie 10y ago
    Actually I would say that being on HN does mean that someone had a claim to be a technical person or in the tech industry, and that being able to install linux is now so easy and so common that it's more like the fizz-buzz test - if you can't do that we shouldn't even be talking.
    - CaptSpify 10y ago
      So what technical test did you take to sign up for the website to prove that you were technical? I know I never took one.
module0000 10y ago
We just want you to read the manual - we did. Summarizing knowledge to people that can't be bothered to read the manual is not a good use of my time. Please don't take that as mean spirited, it's just a fact. "Giving back" to the open source world in my case is done by committing code and documentation, not free support. So when you hear "go read the manual" or RTFM - we aren't insulting you or being jerks. We genuinely want you to better yourself and acquire education, and are pointing you in the right direction to do so.
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  If that's the attitude you have (which I don't think is necessarily wrong), than that's fine. But people aren't going to adopt linux if that's the case. Frankly: The manual sucks. If mass adoption isn't your goal, then great, nothing more to discuss here. But the point of the conversation is comparing linux to win10. I've never used win10, but from what I understand it doesn't require you spend hours pouring over man pages, so there's a lot of friction to transition from win10 to linux.

Nursie 10y ago

I'm not asking why people aren't as smart as I am. I'm not even trying to be controversial here. This is not a "user" we're talking about, this is not beginners help on reddit somewhere, this is HN. If you can't install linux on some reasonably generic pc hardware in this day and age, and you consider yourself a hacker or coder, you probably ought to be a little embarrassed. Certainly not proud as some seem to be. If I was interviewing someone for a role and asked them for their thougts on using linux and got "well I usually give up after a few hours trying to install it" I'd look elsewhere.

pdimitar 10y ago
You are missing something very important here. I can setup almost every Linux I can think of for desktop / everyday usage. My relevant question is: "Is it worth my time?", and most of the time, it's not. Look, it's fine if you breathe Linux in your free time and you don't watch movies or play games, or nail your girlfriend, or even watch the ceiling in half-meditative state with all lights out. That's not sarcasm. Everyone has the right to do what they want with their free time. But many of us are hackers / coders AND have a happy personal life and don't want to bring their work to their free time. And want to make the best use of their work time, too. Linux gets the job done and I very much like my XFCE 4.x on my virtual Debian, but it's still far away from a full-blown user OS on the desktop. Numerous articles agree with this fact.
- Nursie 10y ago
  Hey, I never said you have to like it, never claimed it would meet your needs, never claimed you should convert, never claimed it was better than windows, never claimed you need to spend your free time doing anything. It's a simple comment - if you're working in tech in any capacity and you can't install linux satisfactorily, that really is nothing to be proud of in the modern day and age.
CaptSpify 10y ago
> I'm not asking why people aren't as smart as I am. Not directly, but you are being condescending to someone who has legitimate issues. Just because someone is on HN doesn't mean they are great with linux, or that they are even a technical person. Maybe he's got a different skillset, and doesn't like dicking around with shitty config files, obscure error messages, and jerks that tell them they should be "embarrassed" for not being omniscient. Can you tell me the best way to pull HE levels from a GE MRI's MM? If not, are you going to spend a lot of time looking it up just because? Why aren't you embarrassed that you don't know that? > If I was interviewing someone for a role and asked them for their thougts on using linux and got "well I usually give up after a few hours trying to install it" I'd look elsewhere. Depends on the role. If it was a linux-admin job, absolutely. If it was for a job in HR, then I wouldn't care at all.
- Nursie 10y ago
  Actually I would say that being on HN does mean that someone had a claim to be a technical person or in the tech industry, and that being able to install linux is now so easy and so common that it's more like the fizz-buzz test - if you can't do that we shouldn't even be talking.
  - CaptSpify 10y ago
    So what technical test did you take to sign up for the website to prove that you were technical? I know I never took one.

module0000 10y ago

We just want you to read the manual - we did. Summarizing knowledge to people that can't be bothered to read the manual is not a good use of my time. Please don't take that as mean spirited, it's just a fact. "Giving back" to the open source world in my case is done by committing code and documentation, not free support. So when you hear "go read the manual" or RTFM - we aren't insulting you or being jerks. We genuinely want you to better yourself and acquire education, and are pointing you in the right direction to do so.

CaptSpify 10y ago
If that's the attitude you have (which I don't think is necessarily wrong), than that's fine. But people aren't going to adopt linux if that's the case. Frankly: The manual sucks. If mass adoption isn't your goal, then great, nothing more to discuss here. But the point of the conversation is comparing linux to win10. I've never used win10, but from what I understand it doesn't require you spend hours pouring over man pages, so there's a lot of friction to transition from win10 to linux.