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I'm sorry, who exactly is us? I didn't realize that by becoming a programmer, I'm now morally responsible for the actions of every single programmer out there i

by whack 10y ago

I'm sorry, who exactly is us? I didn't realize that by becoming a programmer, I'm now morally responsible for the actions of every single programmer out there in the world. I didn't realize that i should now look in the mirror and blame myself because some guy I never met decided to follow his CEO's orders and implemented a backdoor in their product. There is no us. There's just hundreds of thousands of individuals, each doing their own thing. Some are angels, some are assholes, and a lot are in the middle. If you think that getting 500,000 people to make a pinky promise to be good is going to prevent shit from happening, that's just delusional thinking. No matter what you or I do, there will always be some asshole Investor/CEO/PM/programmer out there who will screw over people's privacy in order to make money, and you guilt-tripping the other 499,999 programmers is not going to change that. If we want to stop shit from happening, we need systems in place to do that. Either regulatory, certification or market-based systems that catch and punish bad actors. In the absence of such systems, expect dysfunctional outcomes regularly.

onion2k 10y ago
There is no us. I think we actually agree with one another, but I'm just coming at the argument from a slightly more positive position. We, as the engineers who build stuff, need to start making it clear that we don't like what the bad actors do, that we won't build it ourselves, and the "asshole Investor/CEO/PM/programmer" who does won't have a place in our industry. You're quite right that we need systems in place to stop this shit, but you're quite wrong if you think it's someone else's job to make that happen. We can build the certification or market-based systems right now.
- whack 10y ago
  Sorry if my previous message came across a bit harsh. I've been reading Chaos Monkeys lately and the author's style of writing is starting to rub off on me. I think we are indeed in agreement. As industry professionals, we do have the power to influence change. Not through wishful thinking or promises of good behavior, but by working to put in place certification/market-based systems that act as a check on bad corporate behavior. I hope we can start making progress towards those ends.

by whack 10y ago

onion2k 10y ago

There is no us. I think we actually agree with one another, but I'm just coming at the argument from a slightly more positive position. We, as the engineers who build stuff, need to start making it clear that we don't like what the bad actors do, that we won't build it ourselves, and the "asshole Investor/CEO/PM/programmer" who does won't have a place in our industry. You're quite right that we need systems in place to stop this shit, but you're quite wrong if you think it's someone else's job to make that happen. We can build the certification or market-based systems right now.

whack 10y ago
Sorry if my previous message came across a bit harsh. I've been reading Chaos Monkeys lately and the author's style of writing is starting to rub off on me. I think we are indeed in agreement. As industry professionals, we do have the power to influence change. Not through wishful thinking or promises of good behavior, but by working to put in place certification/market-based systems that act as a check on bad corporate behavior. I hope we can start making progress towards those ends.