7 ms·

This is a great point. Tesla is, to me, fundamentally a battery company.

by archildress 10y ago

cthulhujr 10y ago
It's not just you. They're pretty open about the fact that they're a battery company.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  The spin is shifting, they started as a car company with socio-ecological conscience and now moving onto green energy of all forms.
Klathmon 10y ago
To me, Tesla feels like a "marketing" company. And I don't mean that in a bad way. Yes, their battery tech is improving, and they make pretty damn good cars, but most of all Tesla is getting people excited for electric cars. Before they came around, electric cars were shitty ecoboxes that were worse in just about every way to an ICE car. They were ugly, had no range, were missing features, expensive, slow charging, etc... There were exceptions, but for the most part this was what the average person believed. And while you could argue that much of this is still true with Teslas when compared to other luxury brands at the same price point, Tesla has gotten people interested. They've gotten people excited for electric cars. They've made people want them even though they might be worse on paper. And that's a big deal. They are not only making a great product, but they are pushing their competitors to step up their game and really focus on their electric offerings.
- coredog64 10y ago
  Off the top of my head, the pre-Tesla EVs I remember are the GM Impact, an electric RAV4, and an electric S-10/Ranger (the latter primarily sold to corporate fleets). The EV1 spawned a movie, with most owners very interested in buying. If you think a RAV4 is a shitty ecobox, well, I'm not sure how I can help.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - ethbro 10y ago
    I owned an ICE Rav4. I would absolutely characterize it as a shitty ecobox version of an SUV.
- basch 10y ago
  it's also a quality assurance company, similar to apple. "we put these different parts together, and guarantee they function the way we say they do." similar to intel and microsoft making first party hardware, their core becomes more valuable when oems get better.
  - ethbro 10y ago
    > similar to intel and microsoft making first party hardware, their core becomes more valuable when oems get better So, you mean the opposite of Android?
- jsight 10y ago
  I think that describing them as a "marketing" company oversimplifies things in important ways as Tesla wouldn't have been successful without a lot of other key attributes as well (financial planning, product development, extensive development of the product's complements, etc). I do think that you are exactly right in regards to their competitive advantage, though. A company that competes with them will need to do a lot of work to convince the market that their electric car is in the same class as a Tesla. That will take years of work, a lot of money, and it will require them to do some things that risk damaging their existing business. I suspect that we are actually agreeing here and maybe I'm just saying it in a different way?
  - Klathmon 10y ago
    I agree 100% and I think we are saying the same thing.
- ams6110 10y ago
  Wasn't that one of Musk's stated goals early on? I can't recall the exact words but I thought he had made a statement to the effect that he wanted to show the world what an electric car could be, to raise the bar for all manufacturers.
- mikeash 10y ago
  That doesn't seem quite right to me. A lot of what gets people excited about Tesla's cars in the fact that they're great. Getting people excited about your product by making a great product isn't what I'd consider marketing. They do some marketing as well, but it doesn't seem like the core of their business at all.
- yessql 10y ago
  Tesla is probably the most vertically integrated automotive OEM. Tesla doesn't advertise via any traditional channels. Yes, they have changed people minds about EVs, but calling them a marketing company is silly, when you compare them to traditional OEM's that mostly just do final assembly and buy advertising.
snarfy 10y ago
But they don't make the batteries, panasonic does.
- pseudometa 10y ago
  Tesla design and formulates the batteries. Panasonic puts them together.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    And battery production is shifting to the Gigafactory, which is a joint venture of the two companies.
pmarreck 10y ago
Tesla will inevitably be a battery company because battery energy density, charge time and cost are the #1 things holding back electric vehicles from prime-time, and because of the huge investment into Gigafactory. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla ends up licensing their battery tech and that supercharging becomes a standard.
- metamet 10y ago
  Isn't the the whole purpose behind https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you ?
  - pmarreck 10y ago
    One would think, but has anyone actually taken them up on these? Perhaps no one else wants to swallow their pride and realize that Tesla took the lead, here.
- at-fates-hands 10y ago
  >> I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla ends up licensing their battery tech and that supercharging becomes a standard. I would bet it is actually. Licensing is really where the money is. They've built a substantial lead in the EV market and have some pretty impressive technology. If Musk is really serious about expanding the markets he says he is, the fastest way to do that is license his technology to other companies. Let them help him increase these EV markets far faster and scale up far greater than Tesla ever could on their own.
  - MayeulC 10y ago
    And even better for the market: license under the GPL :) Of course, it doesn't make a lot of sense on a commercial perspective, but that's probably one of the most effective ways to bootstrap the market. Plus, it would make for a very interesting case study.
stevenmays 10y ago
Tesla is a "lifestyle" company... like apple. Think about how they're acquiring solar city, they have the powerwall and solar panels. They want to use their equipment to power your home/vehicle. If you're a tesla consumer you're at least upper middle class and care about the environment.

This is a great point. Tesla is, to me, fundamentally a battery company.

cthulhujr 10y ago

It's not just you. They're pretty open about the fact that they're a battery company.

agumonkey 10y ago
The spin is shifting, they started as a car company with socio-ecological conscience and now moving onto green energy of all forms.

Klathmon 10y ago

To me, Tesla feels like a "marketing" company. And I don't mean that in a bad way. Yes, their battery tech is improving, and they make pretty damn good cars, but most of all Tesla is getting people excited for electric cars. Before they came around, electric cars were shitty ecoboxes that were worse in just about every way to an ICE car. They were ugly, had no range, were missing features, expensive, slow charging, etc... There were exceptions, but for the most part this was what the average person believed. And while you could argue that much of this is still true with Teslas when compared to other luxury brands at the same price point, Tesla has gotten people interested. They've gotten people excited for electric cars. They've made people want them even though they might be worse on paper. And that's a big deal. They are not only making a great product, but they are pushing their competitors to step up their game and really focus on their electric offerings.

coredog64 10y ago
Off the top of my head, the pre-Tesla EVs I remember are the GM Impact, an electric RAV4, and an electric S-10/Ranger (the latter primarily sold to corporate fleets). The EV1 spawned a movie, with most owners very interested in buying. If you think a RAV4 is a shitty ecobox, well, I'm not sure how I can help.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- ethbro 10y ago
  I owned an ICE Rav4. I would absolutely characterize it as a shitty ecobox version of an SUV.
basch 10y ago
it's also a quality assurance company, similar to apple. "we put these different parts together, and guarantee they function the way we say they do." similar to intel and microsoft making first party hardware, their core becomes more valuable when oems get better.
- ethbro 10y ago
  > similar to intel and microsoft making first party hardware, their core becomes more valuable when oems get better So, you mean the opposite of Android?
jsight 10y ago
I think that describing them as a "marketing" company oversimplifies things in important ways as Tesla wouldn't have been successful without a lot of other key attributes as well (financial planning, product development, extensive development of the product's complements, etc). I do think that you are exactly right in regards to their competitive advantage, though. A company that competes with them will need to do a lot of work to convince the market that their electric car is in the same class as a Tesla. That will take years of work, a lot of money, and it will require them to do some things that risk damaging their existing business. I suspect that we are actually agreeing here and maybe I'm just saying it in a different way?
- Klathmon 10y ago
  I agree 100% and I think we are saying the same thing.
ams6110 10y ago
Wasn't that one of Musk's stated goals early on? I can't recall the exact words but I thought he had made a statement to the effect that he wanted to show the world what an electric car could be, to raise the bar for all manufacturers.
mikeash 10y ago
That doesn't seem quite right to me. A lot of what gets people excited about Tesla's cars in the fact that they're great. Getting people excited about your product by making a great product isn't what I'd consider marketing. They do some marketing as well, but it doesn't seem like the core of their business at all.
yessql 10y ago
Tesla is probably the most vertically integrated automotive OEM. Tesla doesn't advertise via any traditional channels. Yes, they have changed people minds about EVs, but calling them a marketing company is silly, when you compare them to traditional OEM's that mostly just do final assembly and buy advertising.

snarfy 10y ago

But they don't make the batteries, panasonic does.

pseudometa 10y ago
Tesla design and formulates the batteries. Panasonic puts them together.
- mikeash 10y ago
  And battery production is shifting to the Gigafactory, which is a joint venture of the two companies.

pmarreck 10y ago

Tesla will inevitably be a battery company because battery energy density, charge time and cost are the #1 things holding back electric vehicles from prime-time, and because of the huge investment into Gigafactory. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla ends up licensing their battery tech and that supercharging becomes a standard.

metamet 10y ago
Isn't the the whole purpose behind https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you ?
- pmarreck 10y ago
  One would think, but has anyone actually taken them up on these? Perhaps no one else wants to swallow their pride and realize that Tesla took the lead, here.
at-fates-hands 10y ago
>> I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla ends up licensing their battery tech and that supercharging becomes a standard. I would bet it is actually. Licensing is really where the money is. They've built a substantial lead in the EV market and have some pretty impressive technology. If Musk is really serious about expanding the markets he says he is, the fastest way to do that is license his technology to other companies. Let them help him increase these EV markets far faster and scale up far greater than Tesla ever could on their own.
- MayeulC 10y ago
  And even better for the market: license under the GPL :) Of course, it doesn't make a lot of sense on a commercial perspective, but that's probably one of the most effective ways to bootstrap the market. Plus, it would make for a very interesting case study.

stevenmays 10y ago

Tesla is a "lifestyle" company... like apple. Think about how they're acquiring solar city, they have the powerwall and solar panels. They want to use their equipment to power your home/vehicle. If you're a tesla consumer you're at least upper middle class and care about the environment.