6 ms·

The article only briefly touches on this, but LG Korea is a huge part of this. They make the motor, battery & drivetrain, basically everything that makes this c

by avar 10y ago

The article only briefly touches on this, but LG Korea is a huge part of this. They make the motor, battery & drivetrain, basically everything that makes this car an electric car. Chevrolet is just manufacturing the parts that would be mostly identical to any of their other cars. Rather than Tesla being worried about Chevrolet, I think they'd be more worried about the likes of LG & Samsung in the longer term.

archildress 10y ago
This is a great point. Tesla is, to me, fundamentally a battery company.
- cthulhujr 10y ago
  It's not just you. They're pretty open about the fact that they're a battery company.
  - agumonkey 10y ago
    The spin is shifting, they started as a car company with socio-ecological conscience and now moving onto green energy of all forms.
- Klathmon 10y ago
  To me, Tesla feels like a "marketing" company. And I don't mean that in a bad way. Yes, their battery tech is improving, and they make pretty damn good cars, but most of all Tesla is getting people excited for electric cars. Before they came around, electric cars were shitty ecoboxes that were worse in just about every way to an ICE car. They were ugly, had no range, were missing features, expensive, slow charging, etc... There were exceptions, but for the most part this was what the average person believed. And while you could argue that much of this is still true with Teslas when compared to other luxury brands at the same price point, Tesla has gotten people interested. They've gotten people excited for electric cars. They've made people want them even though they might be worse on paper. And that's a big deal. They are not only making a great product, but they are pushing their competitors to step up their game and really focus on their electric offerings.
  - coredog64 10y ago
    Off the top of my head, the pre-Tesla EVs I remember are the GM Impact, an electric RAV4, and an electric S-10/Ranger (the latter primarily sold to corporate fleets). The EV1 spawned a movie, with most owners very interested in buying. If you think a RAV4 is a shitty ecobox, well, I'm not sure how I can help.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - ethbro 10y ago
      I owned an ICE Rav4. I would absolutely characterize it as a shitty ecobox version of an SUV.
  - basch 10y ago
    it's also a quality assurance company, similar to apple. "we put these different parts together, and guarantee they function the way we say they do." similar to intel and microsoft making first party hardware, their core becomes more valuable when oems get better.
    - ethbro 10y ago
      > similar to intel and microsoft making first party hardware, their core becomes more valuable when oems get better So, you mean the opposite of Android?
  - jsight 10y ago
    I think that describing them as a "marketing" company oversimplifies things in important ways as Tesla wouldn't have been successful without a lot of other key attributes as well (financial planning, product development, extensive development of the product's complements, etc). I do think that you are exactly right in regards to their competitive advantage, though. A company that competes with them will need to do a lot of work to convince the market that their electric car is in the same class as a Tesla. That will take years of work, a lot of money, and it will require them to do some things that risk damaging their existing business. I suspect that we are actually agreeing here and maybe I'm just saying it in a different way?
- snarfy 10y ago
  But they don't make the batteries, panasonic does.
  - pseudometa 10y ago
    Tesla design and formulates the batteries. Panasonic puts them together.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      And battery production is shifting to the Gigafactory, which is a joint venture of the two companies.
- pmarreck 10y ago
  Tesla will inevitably be a battery company because battery energy density, charge time and cost are the #1 things holding back electric vehicles from prime-time, and because of the huge investment into Gigafactory. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla ends up licensing their battery tech and that supercharging becomes a standard.
  - metamet 10y ago
    Isn't the the whole purpose behind https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you ?
    - pmarreck 10y ago
      One would think, but has anyone actually taken them up on these? Perhaps no one else wants to swallow their pride and realize that Tesla took the lead, here.
  - at-fates-hands 10y ago
    >> I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla ends up licensing their battery tech and that supercharging becomes a standard. I would bet it is actually. Licensing is really where the money is. They've built a substantial lead in the EV market and have some pretty impressive technology. If Musk is really serious about expanding the markets he says he is, the fastest way to do that is license his technology to other companies. Let them help him increase these EV markets far faster and scale up far greater than Tesla ever could on their own.
    - MayeulC 10y ago
      And even better for the market: license under the GPL :) Of course, it doesn't make a lot of sense on a commercial perspective, but that's probably one of the most effective ways to bootstrap the market. Plus, it would make for a very interesting case study.
- stevenmays 10y ago
  Tesla is a "lifestyle" company... like apple. Think about how they're acquiring solar city, they have the powerwall and solar panels. They want to use their equipment to power your home/vehicle. If you're a tesla consumer you're at least upper middle class and care about the environment.
Cyph0n 10y ago
Isn't Tesla's battery tech developed by Panasonic? And I believe that some of their initial Autopilot tech was sourced from Mercedes. It's very difficult to find an auto manufacturer that can build a car from the ground up, primarily because the economics aren't scalable.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  It's said most IP is Panasonic's although Tesla is partner and probably works on tech too for optimizations for the Gigafactory.
- GirlsCanCode 10y ago
  But the YCombinator people must minimized GM's accomplishments while maximizing Tesla's. I own both a Tesla Model S (P90D) and a 2016 Chevy Volt. In many ways the Volts technology--with an engine and an electric drive--is more "advanced" than the Teslas. But nobody here was excited about it. Of course, the Tesla has nicer user cockpit controls, etc., but that just icing. I'm looking forward to driving a Bolt.
- pseudometa 10y ago
  Tesla's battery tech is developed by Tesla. Panasonic is the manufacturing partner. Like Apple & Foxcon.
- raphaelj 10y ago
  I think Tesla was relying on MobileEye for Autopilot. Now they are using NVidia chips instead.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - sammydavis 10y ago
    And they always used their own software, it wasn't like a mobile eye product they licensed.
- yessql 10y ago
alexhawdon 10y ago
That is interesting. I wouldn't say it puts Tesla in direct competition with LG & Samsung, but does address the 'how will they ever catch up?' questions wrt traditional car makers. (Not that I'd give these arguments that much credence.) A commoditised battery/drivetrain solution allows the incumbents to focus on what they do best - building high quality cars at scale. So in this respect the challenge lies with Tesla. (FWIW I'm a huge Tesla fan but I enjoy reading EV articles on HN because the discourse is a bit more balanced than more pro-Tesla communities.)
mingyeow 10y ago
This is a genius quote. batteries and self driving car systems will be commoditized.
projektfu 10y ago
It's true that LG Korea is a big part of it, the same way Toyota was a big part of the Prism, but on the other hand this is par for the course of how cars are made these days. The engineers at GM work closely with engineers at their suppliers to develop a system. They likely share a lot of trade secrets. They generally do not try to eat each other's lunch after collaborating on a platform.
bane 10y ago
I think there's a good comparison to make to other tech industries. LG, Samsung, etc. used to just be memory manufacturers, or just display panel makers, but over time they've come to make all the parts of computing devices and now are major competitors to older, more established players. AFAIK, LG doesn't get involved in medium and heavy industries like ship building, but Samsung (now Samsung-Renault) has made cars in the past. Knowing that the Chaebols like to use a "fast-follow" approach, once electric cars become commonplace, it would be a fairly small lift for any given Korean car maker (Hyundai/Kia, Samsung, etc.) to engage with the existing supply chain and just put some product out.

by avar 10y ago

archildress 10y ago

This is a great point. Tesla is, to me, fundamentally a battery company.

cthulhujr 10y ago
It's not just you. They're pretty open about the fact that they're a battery company.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  The spin is shifting, they started as a car company with socio-ecological conscience and now moving onto green energy of all forms.
Klathmon 10y ago
To me, Tesla feels like a "marketing" company. And I don't mean that in a bad way. Yes, their battery tech is improving, and they make pretty damn good cars, but most of all Tesla is getting people excited for electric cars. Before they came around, electric cars were shitty ecoboxes that were worse in just about every way to an ICE car. They were ugly, had no range, were missing features, expensive, slow charging, etc... There were exceptions, but for the most part this was what the average person believed. And while you could argue that much of this is still true with Teslas when compared to other luxury brands at the same price point, Tesla has gotten people interested. They've gotten people excited for electric cars. They've made people want them even though they might be worse on paper. And that's a big deal. They are not only making a great product, but they are pushing their competitors to step up their game and really focus on their electric offerings.
- coredog64 10y ago
  Off the top of my head, the pre-Tesla EVs I remember are the GM Impact, an electric RAV4, and an electric S-10/Ranger (the latter primarily sold to corporate fleets). The EV1 spawned a movie, with most owners very interested in buying. If you think a RAV4 is a shitty ecobox, well, I'm not sure how I can help.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - ethbro 10y ago
    I owned an ICE Rav4. I would absolutely characterize it as a shitty ecobox version of an SUV.
- basch 10y ago
  it's also a quality assurance company, similar to apple. "we put these different parts together, and guarantee they function the way we say they do." similar to intel and microsoft making first party hardware, their core becomes more valuable when oems get better.
  - ethbro 10y ago
    > similar to intel and microsoft making first party hardware, their core becomes more valuable when oems get better So, you mean the opposite of Android?
- jsight 10y ago
  I think that describing them as a "marketing" company oversimplifies things in important ways as Tesla wouldn't have been successful without a lot of other key attributes as well (financial planning, product development, extensive development of the product's complements, etc). I do think that you are exactly right in regards to their competitive advantage, though. A company that competes with them will need to do a lot of work to convince the market that their electric car is in the same class as a Tesla. That will take years of work, a lot of money, and it will require them to do some things that risk damaging their existing business. I suspect that we are actually agreeing here and maybe I'm just saying it in a different way?
snarfy 10y ago
But they don't make the batteries, panasonic does.
- pseudometa 10y ago
  Tesla design and formulates the batteries. Panasonic puts them together.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    And battery production is shifting to the Gigafactory, which is a joint venture of the two companies.
pmarreck 10y ago
Tesla will inevitably be a battery company because battery energy density, charge time and cost are the #1 things holding back electric vehicles from prime-time, and because of the huge investment into Gigafactory. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla ends up licensing their battery tech and that supercharging becomes a standard.
- metamet 10y ago
  Isn't the the whole purpose behind https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you ?
  - pmarreck 10y ago
    One would think, but has anyone actually taken them up on these? Perhaps no one else wants to swallow their pride and realize that Tesla took the lead, here.
- at-fates-hands 10y ago
  >> I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla ends up licensing their battery tech and that supercharging becomes a standard. I would bet it is actually. Licensing is really where the money is. They've built a substantial lead in the EV market and have some pretty impressive technology. If Musk is really serious about expanding the markets he says he is, the fastest way to do that is license his technology to other companies. Let them help him increase these EV markets far faster and scale up far greater than Tesla ever could on their own.
  - MayeulC 10y ago
    And even better for the market: license under the GPL :) Of course, it doesn't make a lot of sense on a commercial perspective, but that's probably one of the most effective ways to bootstrap the market. Plus, it would make for a very interesting case study.
stevenmays 10y ago
Tesla is a "lifestyle" company... like apple. Think about how they're acquiring solar city, they have the powerwall and solar panels. They want to use their equipment to power your home/vehicle. If you're a tesla consumer you're at least upper middle class and care about the environment.

Cyph0n 10y ago

Isn't Tesla's battery tech developed by Panasonic? And I believe that some of their initial Autopilot tech was sourced from Mercedes. It's very difficult to find an auto manufacturer that can build a car from the ground up, primarily because the economics aren't scalable.

agumonkey 10y ago
It's said most IP is Panasonic's although Tesla is partner and probably works on tech too for optimizations for the Gigafactory.
GirlsCanCode 10y ago
But the YCombinator people must minimized GM's accomplishments while maximizing Tesla's. I own both a Tesla Model S (P90D) and a 2016 Chevy Volt. In many ways the Volts technology--with an engine and an electric drive--is more "advanced" than the Teslas. But nobody here was excited about it. Of course, the Tesla has nicer user cockpit controls, etc., but that just icing. I'm looking forward to driving a Bolt.
pseudometa 10y ago
Tesla's battery tech is developed by Tesla. Panasonic is the manufacturing partner. Like Apple & Foxcon.
raphaelj 10y ago
I think Tesla was relying on MobileEye for Autopilot. Now they are using NVidia chips instead.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- sammydavis 10y ago
  And they always used their own software, it wasn't like a mobile eye product they licensed.
yessql 10y ago

alexhawdon 10y ago

That is interesting. I wouldn't say it puts Tesla in direct competition with LG & Samsung, but does address the 'how will they ever catch up?' questions wrt traditional car makers. (Not that I'd give these arguments that much credence.) A commoditised battery/drivetrain solution allows the incumbents to focus on what they do best - building high quality cars at scale. So in this respect the challenge lies with Tesla. (FWIW I'm a huge Tesla fan but I enjoy reading EV articles on HN because the discourse is a bit more balanced than more pro-Tesla communities.)

mingyeow 10y ago

This is a genius quote. batteries and self driving car systems will be commoditized.

projektfu 10y ago

It's true that LG Korea is a big part of it, the same way Toyota was a big part of the Prism, but on the other hand this is par for the course of how cars are made these days. The engineers at GM work closely with engineers at their suppliers to develop a system. They likely share a lot of trade secrets. They generally do not try to eat each other's lunch after collaborating on a platform.

bane 10y ago

I think there's a good comparison to make to other tech industries. LG, Samsung, etc. used to just be memory manufacturers, or just display panel makers, but over time they've come to make all the parts of computing devices and now are major competitors to older, more established players. AFAIK, LG doesn't get involved in medium and heavy industries like ship building, but Samsung (now Samsung-Renault) has made cars in the past. Knowing that the Chaebols like to use a "fast-follow" approach, once electric cars become commonplace, it would be a fairly small lift for any given Korean car maker (Hyundai/Kia, Samsung, etc.) to engage with the existing supply chain and just put some product out.