5 ms·

The problem is that so-called "real" news is itself full of subjectivity, bias and hyperbole. So continues the hand-wringing and pearl-clutching from last week.

ec109685 10y ago
How is that the problem? Can you cite some examples?
- fareesh 10y ago
  There are multiple reporters who colluded with the Clinton campaign to push a specific narrative during the election. In one example, Glenn Thrush went so far as to call himself a hack in one of the emails to her campaign chairman, which he ended with "Please don't tell anyone I did this". Granted there's a difference between bias and a completely fabricated article about something that did not happen, but presenting half the story is also problematic, as is coordinating with the people who the story is being written about. Unfortunately, if one were to entertain the idea of banning Politico, it would be considered an affront to the idea of freedom of the press. By agreeing to allow biased coverage to profit from advertising, Facebook is essentially saying that you can do this as long as you don't get caught. By the same yardstick, several right leaning media companies are guilty of the same sin, but the fact that we have proof in this case suggests that this is a standard practice in the industry, which reveals that honest reporting may only exist upto a particular point. Source: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/12681 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/12681
  - ec109685 10y ago
    Hack language aside, wasn't he asking if the article had an falsehoods in it? How do you expect reporters to have access to "sources inside the X campaign" without making an effort to build relationships and trust?
- forgingahead 10y ago
  This article does a great job highlighting the double standards halfway down: http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/how-the-mainstream-media-destroyed-itself-with-a-little-help-from-donald-trump/news-story/67952f876e42ee61ca794c9ccd370b41 http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/how-the-mainst...
- forgottenpass 10y ago
  How is that the problem? An obviously detectable "fake" news site is kinda benign compared to a serious looking outlet that tells the reader what they want to hear regardless of accuracy. Remember when Jon Stewart spent a decade arguing that Fox News was doing a disservice to the country? Do you think Breitbart, HuffPo or any of the Gawker properties do better at informing the public.
grzm 10y ago
I agree that the news situation is terrible. What's your solution?
- forgingahead 10y ago
  Break up the media companies -- 6 of them owning the vast majority of media in the US is a massive problem. Unfortunately, the people supposed to guard against this are part of the same revolving-door lobbyist/crony complex that exists. The AT&T deal is the most recent one that should be blocked, and it seems like Trump has already indicated that is his position on the issue.
  - grzm 10y ago
    How is that going to change the content of the news? How does that change the incentives that have resulted in the current situation?
- basch 10y ago
  better aggregators. we will never make the internet less noisy. we need better filters. facebook could easily have different toggles for the newsfeed to let you have more temporal control over what you see. currently any feedback you give goes into a black box and you cant change a feedback contribution later, you can only contribute more. http://www.memeorandum.com/river http://www.memeorandum.com/river http://www.techmeme.com/river http://www.techmeme.com/river http://www.mediagazer.com/river http://www.mediagazer.com/river https://redef.com https://redef.com https://longform.org https://longform.org http://www.aldaily.com http://www.aldaily.com
  - grzm 10y ago
    Same criticism as below: How is that going to change the content of the news? How does that change the incentives that have resulted in the current situation?
    - basch 10y ago
      there will always be noise. there will always be sensationalism. there will always be deceit and propaganda. what we can do is offer people the tools, and teach them how to navigate through the noise to the signal. one of those tools is to instill a sense of skepticism and a moral responsibility not to propagate noise. when facebook and google ban ads on fake news, new less scrupulous ad networks will spring into place. there is always money in the banana stand, and by banana stand i mean peddling entertaining shit. and by shit i mean shit.
untog 10y ago
Yes, news is a tricky, subjective thing. No, not all news sources are equal. Some contain hyperbole. Some contain outright lies. To suggest that we shouldn't fix the latter unless we can also fix the former is disingenuous.
r00fus 10y ago
News that is factually wrong and not redacted or corrected is disinformation.
tdb7893 10y ago
I don't understand why media being biased means you shouldn't try to stop stories that are completely untrue.

ec109685 10y ago

How is that the problem? Can you cite some examples?

fareesh 10y ago
There are multiple reporters who colluded with the Clinton campaign to push a specific narrative during the election. In one example, Glenn Thrush went so far as to call himself a hack in one of the emails to her campaign chairman, which he ended with "Please don't tell anyone I did this". Granted there's a difference between bias and a completely fabricated article about something that did not happen, but presenting half the story is also problematic, as is coordinating with the people who the story is being written about. Unfortunately, if one were to entertain the idea of banning Politico, it would be considered an affront to the idea of freedom of the press. By agreeing to allow biased coverage to profit from advertising, Facebook is essentially saying that you can do this as long as you don't get caught. By the same yardstick, several right leaning media companies are guilty of the same sin, but the fact that we have proof in this case suggests that this is a standard practice in the industry, which reveals that honest reporting may only exist upto a particular point. Source: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/12681 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/12681
- ec109685 10y ago
  Hack language aside, wasn't he asking if the article had an falsehoods in it? How do you expect reporters to have access to "sources inside the X campaign" without making an effort to build relationships and trust?
forgingahead 10y ago
This article does a great job highlighting the double standards halfway down: http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/how-the-mainstream-media-destroyed-itself-with-a-little-help-from-donald-trump/news-story/67952f876e42ee61ca794c9ccd370b41 http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/how-the-mainst...
forgottenpass 10y ago
How is that the problem? An obviously detectable "fake" news site is kinda benign compared to a serious looking outlet that tells the reader what they want to hear regardless of accuracy. Remember when Jon Stewart spent a decade arguing that Fox News was doing a disservice to the country? Do you think Breitbart, HuffPo or any of the Gawker properties do better at informing the public.

grzm 10y ago

I agree that the news situation is terrible. What's your solution?

forgingahead 10y ago
Break up the media companies -- 6 of them owning the vast majority of media in the US is a massive problem. Unfortunately, the people supposed to guard against this are part of the same revolving-door lobbyist/crony complex that exists. The AT&T deal is the most recent one that should be blocked, and it seems like Trump has already indicated that is his position on the issue.
- grzm 10y ago
  How is that going to change the content of the news? How does that change the incentives that have resulted in the current situation?
basch 10y ago
better aggregators. we will never make the internet less noisy. we need better filters. facebook could easily have different toggles for the newsfeed to let you have more temporal control over what you see. currently any feedback you give goes into a black box and you cant change a feedback contribution later, you can only contribute more. http://www.memeorandum.com/river http://www.memeorandum.com/river http://www.techmeme.com/river http://www.techmeme.com/river http://www.mediagazer.com/river http://www.mediagazer.com/river https://redef.com https://redef.com https://longform.org https://longform.org http://www.aldaily.com http://www.aldaily.com
- grzm 10y ago
  Same criticism as below: How is that going to change the content of the news? How does that change the incentives that have resulted in the current situation?
  - basch 10y ago
    there will always be noise. there will always be sensationalism. there will always be deceit and propaganda. what we can do is offer people the tools, and teach them how to navigate through the noise to the signal. one of those tools is to instill a sense of skepticism and a moral responsibility not to propagate noise. when facebook and google ban ads on fake news, new less scrupulous ad networks will spring into place. there is always money in the banana stand, and by banana stand i mean peddling entertaining shit. and by shit i mean shit.

untog 10y ago

Yes, news is a tricky, subjective thing. No, not all news sources are equal. Some contain hyperbole. Some contain outright lies. To suggest that we shouldn't fix the latter unless we can also fix the former is disingenuous.

r00fus 10y ago

News that is factually wrong and not redacted or corrected is disinformation.

tdb7893 10y ago

I don't understand why media being biased means you shouldn't try to stop stories that are completely untrue.