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This is the narrative currently being pushed, but let's not forget its weaknesses: - A blue-collar senior in Appalachia is really unlikely to have enough conta

This is the narrative currently being pushed, but let's not forget its weaknesses: - A blue-collar senior in Appalachia is really unlikely to have enough contact with those "liberal college students" to be bothered with their constant references to Judith Butler etc. - If the issue is with racism or homophobia, I don't see a compromise happening: minority rights aren't subject to popular approval. Democracy isn't two wolves and a sheep deciding on dinner. - Trump voters are by and large not the poorest. The white guy with missing teeth living in a trailer is the wrong cliche, because he's unlikely to vote at all. These are conservatives, many retired. - Every time some politician talks about "real America", he's trying to delegitimize liberals. I fail to see how that is less insulting. - People who decide to punish the weakest of the weak, just because it's a convenient way to annoy me, are indeed worse people. - The left should get back to talking about economics, yes. But I doubt that these voters would appreciate it, seeing as the last time the left made the case against neoliberalism, most of them probably complained about "the smelly hippies who should get a job instead of taking about some 99% or 1% BS" - there are quite a few improvements for a factory worker who lost his job that the left has implemented, or would like to if not for a complete boycott of government by the right: universal healthcare, universal income, consumer financial protection (payday-loan and similar specifically targeting poor people). Strong anti-trust regulation. Redirecting money from the military to investments in infrastructure/education/health...

sudoscript 10y ago
Politics is not just about being right. It's about convincing others you are. That's where the left has failed (if you agree with their positions). Agreed, the left has real ideas for solutions to middle America. But these ideas are not what people want, so the burden is to prove that they work. Unfortunately for many of those ideas, such as universal income, it is still too early to say. Meanwhile other ideas, such as the current implementation of healthcare, is actively being rejected by voters after it was tried, i.e. it does not work (they're like a product customers do not buy, even if it's good for them). You're also right that Trump's voters all not all poor and living in trailer parks (they also weren't all old people). I haven't seen data on socioeconomic background, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were essentially middle of the road. But for good reason, they are afraid for their economic futures. It's a justified fear, and it's good cause for feeling desperate.
- hga 10y ago
  Unfortunately for many of those ideas, such as universal income, it is still too early to say. As others have noted in this subthread, that's not a desired solution for many of these people. They want to earn their money, not "get a handout". Look at McGovern's 1972 campaign "Demogrant" proposal, $1,000 to every citizen, that's 5,750 in official 2016 BLS CPI dollars. As I saw them at the time, the most effective political ads against him showed toy soldiers, ships and I assume planes, on a board (maybe of world?), and then a hand wiped off a large fraction of them, putting into visual language his (anti-)defense proposals, which I'll note weren't copied by Jimmy Carter, even before the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. But the second most was on the Demogrant, although all I can remember about it is some iron worker, maybe eating his lunch, high up on the side of a building frame, and I think it was in black and white. I don't think enough Americans have changed, especially the Rust Belt ones that carried him over the top, that universal income is going to fly with them. That you think it has a chance suggests one of us is not in touch with these people. Then again, I find the idea personally abhorrent for what I believe to be the same reasons, but on the third hand I'm pretty old, at least by HN standards.
  - sudoscript 10y ago
    Oh, I definitely agree. I am not a UBI supporter by any means. Still, I think if the left can prove that it works on a smaller scale, and change people's mind, I'd be willing to reconsider (which is my default position on almost anything -- prove it and I'll believe it). But it's a long shot.

sudoscript 10y ago

Politics is not just about being right. It's about convincing others you are. That's where the left has failed (if you agree with their positions). Agreed, the left has real ideas for solutions to middle America. But these ideas are not what people want, so the burden is to prove that they work. Unfortunately for many of those ideas, such as universal income, it is still too early to say. Meanwhile other ideas, such as the current implementation of healthcare, is actively being rejected by voters after it was tried, i.e. it does not work (they're like a product customers do not buy, even if it's good for them). You're also right that Trump's voters all not all poor and living in trailer parks (they also weren't all old people). I haven't seen data on socioeconomic background, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were essentially middle of the road. But for good reason, they are afraid for their economic futures. It's a justified fear, and it's good cause for feeling desperate.

hga 10y ago
Unfortunately for many of those ideas, such as universal income, it is still too early to say. As others have noted in this subthread, that's not a desired solution for many of these people. They want to earn their money, not "get a handout". Look at McGovern's 1972 campaign "Demogrant" proposal, $1,000 to every citizen, that's 5,750 in official 2016 BLS CPI dollars. As I saw them at the time, the most effective political ads against him showed toy soldiers, ships and I assume planes, on a board (maybe of world?), and then a hand wiped off a large fraction of them, putting into visual language his (anti-)defense proposals, which I'll note weren't copied by Jimmy Carter, even before the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. But the second most was on the Demogrant, although all I can remember about it is some iron worker, maybe eating his lunch, high up on the side of a building frame, and I think it was in black and white. I don't think enough Americans have changed, especially the Rust Belt ones that carried him over the top, that universal income is going to fly with them. That you think it has a chance suggests one of us is not in touch with these people. Then again, I find the idea personally abhorrent for what I believe to be the same reasons, but on the third hand I'm pretty old, at least by HN standards.
- sudoscript 10y ago
  Oh, I definitely agree. I am not a UBI supporter by any means. Still, I think if the left can prove that it works on a smaller scale, and change people's mind, I'd be willing to reconsider (which is my default position on almost anything -- prove it and I'll believe it). But it's a long shot.