7 ms·

taking it upon themselves to decide for everyone else how a city should operate How so? They aren't dictating traffic flow, they are adding visibility marke

taking it upon themselves to decide for everyone else how a city should operate How so? They aren't dictating traffic flow, they are adding visibility markers to existing bike lanes.

lubujackson 10y ago
Maybe the markers are too high and will hit some car mirrors. Maybe they impede lane access for turning vehicles. Maybe they are too close together, too far apart or too distracting to drivers or too close to bicyclists. Maybe they are not well grounded and if hit one will fly into traffic causing an accident. That being said, these are probably completely fine. But there's lot of reasons why having a process for infrastructure changes makes sense. At the same time, I applaud SF for being pragmatic about it and accepting of these people while working toward a long term solution.
- moyta 10y ago
  If your door mirror is getting hit, you are driving way too close to the markers and they are doing their job. Hug the shoulder less, unless you like no mirrors & damage to the side of your car.
stanleydrew 10y ago
That's the most generous possible interpretation of the situation. It may be correct, I'm just noting. I ride my bike to and from work pretty much every day in SF, and I readily admit that adding these markers most definitely does interrupt and disrupt traffic flow. The fact of the matter is, sometimes delivery vehicles and service vehicles need to stop and block traffic. They tend to pull over as far as possible to the right, so as not to impede auto traffic. Often this means pulling over into the bike lane. (Note that when there is no bike lane, these vehicles block the right-most lane of auto traffic and cars just go around without getting too hot and bothered. But I digress.) Erecting the markers prevents this behavior in many instances. You can decide to be in favor of the new bike lane markers, but you can't pretend that the added markers aren't a unilateral alteration to traffic flow that does have an effect.
- alwaysdoit 10y ago
  You mean, sometimes delivery vehicles and service vehicles illegally choose to stop and block traffic.
  - stanleydrew 10y ago
    Sure, and sometimes I illegally jaywalk. These are common occurrences that, I believe, are generally accepted with grace and understanding by the rest of us and keep our society running smoothly.
    - voxic11 10y ago
      But it's undemocratic. A small number of people are determining how best to keep society running smoothly. Shouldn't they follow the democratically decided rules?
    - jdavis703 10y ago
      But when you jaywalk you make sure the road is clear, no? How can the delivery driver ensure no one else uses the bike lane while they make their drop off?
    - gohrt 10y ago
      "Jaywalking" law, including its slur of a name ("jay" = "crazy", for the crime of walking in your neighborhood), was installed by the automobile lobby to give automobile users priority of the majority of society, to increase automobile sellers' profits..
      - jrockway 10y ago
        > to increase automobile sellers' profits How's that working out for them.
        TheCoelacanth 10y ago
        Well, they managed to entrench themselves in society so thoroughly that the government bailed them out when they collapsed due to their own incompetence, so pretty well.

taking it upon themselves to decide for everyone else how a city should operate How so? They aren't dictating traffic flow, they are adding visibility markers to existing bike lanes.

lubujackson 10y ago

Maybe the markers are too high and will hit some car mirrors. Maybe they impede lane access for turning vehicles. Maybe they are too close together, too far apart or too distracting to drivers or too close to bicyclists. Maybe they are not well grounded and if hit one will fly into traffic causing an accident. That being said, these are probably completely fine. But there's lot of reasons why having a process for infrastructure changes makes sense. At the same time, I applaud SF for being pragmatic about it and accepting of these people while working toward a long term solution.

moyta 10y ago
If your door mirror is getting hit, you are driving way too close to the markers and they are doing their job. Hug the shoulder less, unless you like no mirrors & damage to the side of your car.

stanleydrew 10y ago

That's the most generous possible interpretation of the situation. It may be correct, I'm just noting. I ride my bike to and from work pretty much every day in SF, and I readily admit that adding these markers most definitely does interrupt and disrupt traffic flow. The fact of the matter is, sometimes delivery vehicles and service vehicles need to stop and block traffic. They tend to pull over as far as possible to the right, so as not to impede auto traffic. Often this means pulling over into the bike lane. (Note that when there is no bike lane, these vehicles block the right-most lane of auto traffic and cars just go around without getting too hot and bothered. But I digress.) Erecting the markers prevents this behavior in many instances. You can decide to be in favor of the new bike lane markers, but you can't pretend that the added markers aren't a unilateral alteration to traffic flow that does have an effect.

alwaysdoit 10y ago
You mean, sometimes delivery vehicles and service vehicles illegally choose to stop and block traffic.
- stanleydrew 10y ago
  Sure, and sometimes I illegally jaywalk. These are common occurrences that, I believe, are generally accepted with grace and understanding by the rest of us and keep our society running smoothly.
  - voxic11 10y ago
    But it's undemocratic. A small number of people are determining how best to keep society running smoothly. Shouldn't they follow the democratically decided rules?
  - jdavis703 10y ago
    But when you jaywalk you make sure the road is clear, no? How can the delivery driver ensure no one else uses the bike lane while they make their drop off?
  - gohrt 10y ago
    "Jaywalking" law, including its slur of a name ("jay" = "crazy", for the crime of walking in your neighborhood), was installed by the automobile lobby to give automobile users priority of the majority of society, to increase automobile sellers' profits..
    - jrockway 10y ago
      > to increase automobile sellers' profits How's that working out for them.
      - TheCoelacanth 10y ago
        Well, they managed to entrench themselves in society so thoroughly that the government bailed them out when they collapsed due to their own incompetence, so pretty well.