6 ms·

No, I'm talking about all the columnists who openly refer to that 42% as traitors to their gender. I did a Google search (ironic, I know) for "Trump traitor ge

by ern 10y ago

No, I'm talking about all the columnists who openly refer to that 42% as traitors to their gender. I did a Google search (ironic, I know) for "Trump traitor gender" and I couldn't find columnists referring to Trump-voting women as traitors to their gender. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, but I think this illustrates the sort of problem we are faced with

ThomPete 10y ago
Took me one search. http://www.chicksontheright.com/feminists-say-white-women-are-traitors-for-supporting-donald-trump-heres-what-i-think-about-that/ http://www.chicksontheright.com/feminists-say-white-women-ar...
- ern 10y ago
  Thanks, but that's a column that accuses feminists of the same thing that GP did. It isn't a column by a feminist accusing Trump voters of being gender traitors, although it does link to a single blog post on Slate http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/11/09/white_women_sold_out_the_sisterhood_and_the_world_by_voting_for_trump.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/11/09/white_women_... Perhaps that blogpost partially satisfies GP's assertion, but this little thread illustrates how difficult it is to fact-check political rhetoric, even in the absence of fake news.
  - ThomPete 10y ago
    This is silly. Anyone who followed the election just a little bit saw plenty of that. Here is another one that didn't take me more than one search either. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election/republican-women-supporting-trump-ashamed-article-1.2822728 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election/republican-women-su... If anything it proves exactly what I said.
  - Sacho 10y ago
    I do agree that you should be able to back up your assertions with some sources. As GP asserts, we all have our little bubbles of bias that seem incomprehensible to the rest, as we focus and magnify issues that are important to us. In the interest of going forward instead of just arguing back and forth about sources, I looked for a few. Disclaimer: I am generally anti-feminist in my views. For reproducibility's sake, I used combinations of the following search terms: feminism, white women, trump, internalized misogyny, we need to talk, intersectionality. I also added tl;drs to each link but don't consider them canonical. I didn't find enough posts outright calling women "gender traitors". I don't believe that is the most common feminist MO - they are more likely to blame "internalized misogyny" and "white women abandoning the sisterhood"(I guess that's close enough?), which are both long-standing narratives among feminism(feminists vs non-feminists, and the internal racial divide). The rage I found was mostly on Twitter, feeding into my preconceived notion that Twitter is cancerous to actual discussion. Here's a quick twitter dump to illustrate: > https://twitter.com/BDubBabyGirl/status/797128287206146048 https://twitter.com/BDubBabyGirl/status/797128287206146048 > https://twitter.com/Karnythia/status/796350601449926656 https://twitter.com/Karnythia/status/796350601449926656 > https://twitter.com/AnasuyaIam/status/796462867868512256 https://twitter.com/AnasuyaIam/status/796462867868512256 > https://twitter.com/NotYourBlkFrnd/status/796937029414096896 https://twitter.com/NotYourBlkFrnd/status/796937029414096896 > https://twitter.com/TorraineWalker/status/796363979711021056 https://twitter.com/TorraineWalker/status/796363979711021056 > https://twitter.com/MJStarLover/status/796246525647187969?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/MJStarLover/status/796246525647187969?re... > https://twitter.com/NicCageMatch/status/796443880333811713?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/NicCageMatch/status/796443880333811713?r... > https://twitter.com/fawfulfan/status/796421710669115392?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/fawfulfan/status/796421710669115392?ref_... > http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nus-womens-officer-hareem-ghani-suggests-white-women-are-to-blame-for-donald-trumps-win_uk_582336dbe4b09d57a9aaf190 http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nus-womens-officer-har... ------------------------------------------------------- Past the twitter outrage, the articles I found were a lot more analytical and introspective. Like I said, the most common themes were "white women betraying the sisterhood", and women in general "suffering" from "internalized misogyny": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLWv-hivjt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLWv-hivjt4 - Women voting for trump are "fucking dumb" http://forward.com/sisterhood/353945/so-um-about-the-white-female-vote/ http://forward.com/sisterhood/353945/so-um-about-the-white-f... - White women don't believe in feminism, they have "internalized sexism", they take comfort in playing the role of an object (By the way, that last thing also happened vs Bernie Sanders voters, when Clinton supporter Steinem said women only vote for Bernie to make themselves attractive to "boys") http://qz.com/835567/election-2016-white-women-voted-for-donald-trump-in-2016-because-they-still-believe-white-men-are-their-saviors/ http://qz.com/835567/election-2016-white-women-voted-for-don... - white women have a history of betraying their sisters, white women choose men over women http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/11/09/white_women_sold_out_the_sisterhood_and_the_world_by_voting_for_trump.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/11/09/white_women_... - white women sold out the sisterhood (the one you linked) http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2016/11/09/dont-blame-white-women-trumps-victory-blame-internalized-misogyny http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2016/11/09/dont-blame-whi... - blame internalized misogyny, women just can't help themselves? http://www.salon.com/2016/04/08/the_mystery_of_republican_women_backing_sexist_trump_theyre_female_misogynists_whove_grown_to_accept_oppression/ http://www.salon.com/2016/04/08/the_mystery_of_republican_wo... - more internalized misogyny (pre-victory) https://bitchmedia.org/article/white-women-you-need-talk-about-racism https://bitchmedia.org/article/white-women-you-need-talk-abo... - "When the conversation started to slowly turn to blaming white women.." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dear-white-women-we-messed-this-up-election-2016_us_582341c9e4b0aac62488970e http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dear-white-women-we-mess... - Fellow white women, I’m done with you. https://www.bustle.com/articles/194381-white-women-need-to-admit-that-we-are-a-part-of-the-problem https://www.bustle.com/articles/194381-white-women-need-to-a... - internalized sexism http://theslot.jezebel.com/all-along-it-was-you-1788758934 http://theslot.jezebel.com/all-along-it-was-you-1788758934 - White women care more about their privilege than their freedom to choose https://www.bustle.com/articles/194493-white-women-failed-hillary-clinton-they-also-failed-other-women https://www.bustle.com/articles/194493-white-women-failed-hi... - White women failed other women https://mic.com/articles/159036/white-men-didn-t-win-the-election-for-trump-female-misogynists-did#.e8dpMdrQn https://mic.com/articles/159036/white-men-didn-t-win-the-ele... - the female misogynists who voted for Trump stood on the backs of others http://reelgirl.com/2016/11/dear-white-women-who-didnt-vote-for-hillary-or-who-did-so-holding-their-nose/ http://reelgirl.com/2016/11/dear-white-women-who-didnt-vote-... - Dear white women, you fucked up http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2016/11/10/trump-election-white-women-sexism-racism/93611984/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2016/11/10/trum... - more internalized misogyny, women like patriarchy https://dailyprogressive.org/2016/11/wtf-white-feminism-many-white-women-vote-trump/ https://dailyprogressive.org/2016/11/wtf-white-feminism-many... - Agreement with the Slate article After conducting the search, I think that our internal narratives are easily reinforced by the bevy of media out there. Now more than ever it's important to be skeptical of "their side is worse", because the explosion of information availability makes it pretty easy to find negative views out in the open, especially ones that can make you very angry and emotional. That's pretty much the death of rational discourse. Most of the stuff I found was analysis, or calls to action, not naming and shaming. Especially newspapers like the NYTimes, had multiple articles as CTAs to "stop shaming Trump supporters". A bit of a hopeful message going forward.

by ern 10y ago

ThomPete 10y ago

Took me one search. http://www.chicksontheright.com/feminists-say-white-women-are-traitors-for-supporting-donald-trump-heres-what-i-think-about-that/ http://www.chicksontheright.com/feminists-say-white-women-ar...

ern 10y ago
Thanks, but that's a column that accuses feminists of the same thing that GP did. It isn't a column by a feminist accusing Trump voters of being gender traitors, although it does link to a single blog post on Slate http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/11/09/white_women_sold_out_the_sisterhood_and_the_world_by_voting_for_trump.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/11/09/white_women_... Perhaps that blogpost partially satisfies GP's assertion, but this little thread illustrates how difficult it is to fact-check political rhetoric, even in the absence of fake news.
- ThomPete 10y ago
  This is silly. Anyone who followed the election just a little bit saw plenty of that. Here is another one that didn't take me more than one search either. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election/republican-women-supporting-trump-ashamed-article-1.2822728 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election/republican-women-su... If anything it proves exactly what I said.
- Sacho 10y ago
  I do agree that you should be able to back up your assertions with some sources. As GP asserts, we all have our little bubbles of bias that seem incomprehensible to the rest, as we focus and magnify issues that are important to us. In the interest of going forward instead of just arguing back and forth about sources, I looked for a few. Disclaimer: I am generally anti-feminist in my views. For reproducibility's sake, I used combinations of the following search terms: feminism, white women, trump, internalized misogyny, we need to talk, intersectionality. I also added tl;drs to each link but don't consider them canonical. I didn't find enough posts outright calling women "gender traitors". I don't believe that is the most common feminist MO - they are more likely to blame "internalized misogyny" and "white women abandoning the sisterhood"(I guess that's close enough?), which are both long-standing narratives among feminism(feminists vs non-feminists, and the internal racial divide). The rage I found was mostly on Twitter, feeding into my preconceived notion that Twitter is cancerous to actual discussion. Here's a quick twitter dump to illustrate: > https://twitter.com/BDubBabyGirl/status/797128287206146048 https://twitter.com/BDubBabyGirl/status/797128287206146048 > https://twitter.com/Karnythia/status/796350601449926656 https://twitter.com/Karnythia/status/796350601449926656 > https://twitter.com/AnasuyaIam/status/796462867868512256 https://twitter.com/AnasuyaIam/status/796462867868512256 > https://twitter.com/NotYourBlkFrnd/status/796937029414096896 https://twitter.com/NotYourBlkFrnd/status/796937029414096896 > https://twitter.com/TorraineWalker/status/796363979711021056 https://twitter.com/TorraineWalker/status/796363979711021056 > https://twitter.com/MJStarLover/status/796246525647187969?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/MJStarLover/status/796246525647187969?re... > https://twitter.com/NicCageMatch/status/796443880333811713?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/NicCageMatch/status/796443880333811713?r... > https://twitter.com/fawfulfan/status/796421710669115392?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/fawfulfan/status/796421710669115392?ref_... > http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nus-womens-officer-hareem-ghani-suggests-white-women-are-to-blame-for-donald-trumps-win_uk_582336dbe4b09d57a9aaf190 http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nus-womens-officer-har... ------------------------------------------------------- Past the twitter outrage, the articles I found were a lot more analytical and introspective. Like I said, the most common themes were "white women betraying the sisterhood", and women in general "suffering" from "internalized misogyny": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLWv-hivjt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLWv-hivjt4 - Women voting for trump are "fucking dumb" http://forward.com/sisterhood/353945/so-um-about-the-white-female-vote/ http://forward.com/sisterhood/353945/so-um-about-the-white-f... - White women don't believe in feminism, they have "internalized sexism", they take comfort in playing the role of an object (By the way, that last thing also happened vs Bernie Sanders voters, when Clinton supporter Steinem said women only vote for Bernie to make themselves attractive to "boys") http://qz.com/835567/election-2016-white-women-voted-for-donald-trump-in-2016-because-they-still-believe-white-men-are-their-saviors/ http://qz.com/835567/election-2016-white-women-voted-for-don... - white women have a history of betraying their sisters, white women choose men over women http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/11/09/white_women_sold_out_the_sisterhood_and_the_world_by_voting_for_trump.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/11/09/white_women_... - white women sold out the sisterhood (the one you linked) http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2016/11/09/dont-blame-white-women-trumps-victory-blame-internalized-misogyny http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2016/11/09/dont-blame-whi... - blame internalized misogyny, women just can't help themselves? http://www.salon.com/2016/04/08/the_mystery_of_republican_women_backing_sexist_trump_theyre_female_misogynists_whove_grown_to_accept_oppression/ http://www.salon.com/2016/04/08/the_mystery_of_republican_wo... - more internalized misogyny (pre-victory) https://bitchmedia.org/article/white-women-you-need-talk-about-racism https://bitchmedia.org/article/white-women-you-need-talk-abo... - "When the conversation started to slowly turn to blaming white women.." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dear-white-women-we-messed-this-up-election-2016_us_582341c9e4b0aac62488970e http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dear-white-women-we-mess... - Fellow white women, I’m done with you. https://www.bustle.com/articles/194381-white-women-need-to-admit-that-we-are-a-part-of-the-problem https://www.bustle.com/articles/194381-white-women-need-to-a... - internalized sexism http://theslot.jezebel.com/all-along-it-was-you-1788758934 http://theslot.jezebel.com/all-along-it-was-you-1788758934 - White women care more about their privilege than their freedom to choose https://www.bustle.com/articles/194493-white-women-failed-hillary-clinton-they-also-failed-other-women https://www.bustle.com/articles/194493-white-women-failed-hi... - White women failed other women https://mic.com/articles/159036/white-men-didn-t-win-the-election-for-trump-female-misogynists-did#.e8dpMdrQn https://mic.com/articles/159036/white-men-didn-t-win-the-ele... - the female misogynists who voted for Trump stood on the backs of others http://reelgirl.com/2016/11/dear-white-women-who-didnt-vote-for-hillary-or-who-did-so-holding-their-nose/ http://reelgirl.com/2016/11/dear-white-women-who-didnt-vote-... - Dear white women, you fucked up http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2016/11/10/trump-election-white-women-sexism-racism/93611984/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2016/11/10/trum... - more internalized misogyny, women like patriarchy https://dailyprogressive.org/2016/11/wtf-white-feminism-many-white-women-vote-trump/ https://dailyprogressive.org/2016/11/wtf-white-feminism-many... - Agreement with the Slate article After conducting the search, I think that our internal narratives are easily reinforced by the bevy of media out there. Now more than ever it's important to be skeptical of "their side is worse", because the explosion of information availability makes it pretty easy to find negative views out in the open, especially ones that can make you very angry and emotional. That's pretty much the death of rational discourse. Most of the stuff I found was analysis, or calls to action, not naming and shaming. Especially newspapers like the NYTimes, had multiple articles as CTAs to "stop shaming Trump supporters". A bit of a hopeful message going forward.