5 ms·

I agree that the system needs to change, but you should also take into consideration that the purpose of the electoral college is to prop up the power of smalle

by ewzimm 10y ago

I agree that the system needs to change, but you should also take into consideration that the purpose of the electoral college is to prop up the power of smaller states that don't have large populations, as minority opinions are important too. How people vote is partially a reflection of who the campaigns addressed. Because it's the electoral college that counts, candidates campaign to win the electoral college, not the popular vote. If the popular vote won the presidency, campaigns would adjust their strategy to address the popular vote. This would mean less focus on swing states and more focus on addressing the population overall. Trump winning while losing the popular vote is the system working as intended, but we can definitely debate whether those intentions were good and if the reasons for the system still apply today. The political situation is very different now from when the electoral college was implemented. As it stands, it's entirely up to the states to change the laws binding their electors to the state popular vote. Eleven have already signed on to National Popular Vote Interstate Compact which would bind their electors to the national popular vote if enough states sign on.

hga 10y ago
If the popular vote won the presidency, campaigns would adjust their strategy to address the popular vote. Exactly, these complaints are based on an unknowable counterfactual, that if the rules of the game were total votes, a Trump campaign based on them wouldn't have won. All we know is that if you change the rules of the game after it's been played, Hillary "won". Plus states generally don't count absentee ballots unless they could change election results (which wouldn't necessarily be for the presidential race), so we're only talking about votes counted, not votes cast. And absentee ballots strongly break Republican, like 2/3rds to 1/3rd from one source I just read.
- mikeyouse 10y ago
  There's a certain bit of irony in your critique including an incorrect and unsourced rumor that has been making its way around social media. In case it isn't clear, yes, all ballots are counted in every election. Even absentee ballots. The idea that they're not counted is ludicrous. https://www.fvap.gov/vao/vag/appendix/faq https://www.fvap.gov/vao/vag/appendix/faq
  - hga 10y ago
    While it may be an "unsourced rumor that has been making its way around social media.", it's also something I learned years ago, it's a simple and very obvious economy measure. And whatever that Official Federal Government FAQ might say to, for example, encourage people to vote absentee, it has no bearing on the facts on the ground. The rules of which are, for Presidental elections, the sole prerogative of each state's legislature.
    - mikeyouse 10y ago
      The fact that you learned it years ago doesn't change whether it's an unsourced rumor. Every single state certifies their ballot totals and every single state counts each vote. I challenge you to find a single state where their policy is to only count absentees in close races.
yolesaber 10y ago
Your points are all valid and I agree. I can only hope that this election can spur the effort to remove the electoral college. It is a vestige of slavery and oppression - http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/electoral-college-slavery-constitution/ http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/electoral-college-slaver...

by ewzimm 10y ago

hga 10y ago

If the popular vote won the presidency, campaigns would adjust their strategy to address the popular vote. Exactly, these complaints are based on an unknowable counterfactual, that if the rules of the game were total votes, a Trump campaign based on them wouldn't have won. All we know is that if you change the rules of the game after it's been played, Hillary "won". Plus states generally don't count absentee ballots unless they could change election results (which wouldn't necessarily be for the presidential race), so we're only talking about votes counted, not votes cast. And absentee ballots strongly break Republican, like 2/3rds to 1/3rd from one source I just read.

mikeyouse 10y ago
There's a certain bit of irony in your critique including an incorrect and unsourced rumor that has been making its way around social media. In case it isn't clear, yes, all ballots are counted in every election. Even absentee ballots. The idea that they're not counted is ludicrous. https://www.fvap.gov/vao/vag/appendix/faq https://www.fvap.gov/vao/vag/appendix/faq
- hga 10y ago
  While it may be an "unsourced rumor that has been making its way around social media.", it's also something I learned years ago, it's a simple and very obvious economy measure. And whatever that Official Federal Government FAQ might say to, for example, encourage people to vote absentee, it has no bearing on the facts on the ground. The rules of which are, for Presidental elections, the sole prerogative of each state's legislature.
  - mikeyouse 10y ago
    The fact that you learned it years ago doesn't change whether it's an unsourced rumor. Every single state certifies their ballot totals and every single state counts each vote. I challenge you to find a single state where their policy is to only count absentees in close races.

yolesaber 10y ago

Your points are all valid and I agree. I can only hope that this election can spur the effort to remove the electoral college. It is a vestige of slavery and oppression - http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/electoral-college-slavery-constitution/ http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/electoral-college-slaver...