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Shazam Keeps Your Mac’s Microphone Always On, Even When You Turn It Off
- nkrisc 10y agoOn the radio today I heard a commercial instruct listeners to "Shazam this ad" to learn more about whatever it was they were selling. That commercial angle for Shazam is fine, but it makes the fact they keep your microphone on feel a little more creepy.
- gnicholas 10y agoYeah given the recent spate of ultrasonic trackers, this revelation is not a welcome one. I believe Shazam when they say they're not using the data, but all it takes is one (silent) update to their privacy policy and TOC...
- nicky0 10y agoAny app you have installed on your system could silently update itself to spy on you.
- dbot 10y agoI've seen similar logos pop up during commercials - this seems directly related to that marketing effort. Still, I wonder who would rush to get out their phone and open up Shazam, just to learn more about this product/service? It's not any easier than a Google search. It's basically an audio version of the famous tech flameout "CueCat."
- atomical 10y agoIf they incentivize it with a discount or free sample they might.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- nathanaldensr 10y agoWhy is Pearson so arrogant about this? Shazam doesn't control my device, I do. What's to stop any other software vendor from ignoring the configuration with whatever justification they want to use?
- thieving_magpie 10y ago>Shazam doesn't control my device, I do. I'm not sure how you can be confident in stating that as fact. I'm not at all. In the US there are many issues with switching carriers, for one example. You state that you're in control of the device but then say "What's to stop any other software vendor from ignoring the configuration". Ignoring what seems like a contradiction there, I think we would have different definitions for what it means to control your own device.
- nicky0 10y agoShazam doesn't "override configuration". Just quit Shazam and hey presto, no more listening. The on/off setting is the one within Shazam itseld. It's really a "process audio" setting not a "microphone" setting.
- phs318u 10y agoThis kind of behaviour is what led me to install Micro Snitch [1]. I'm sure there are Windows and Linux equivalents. [1] https://obdev.at/products/microsnitch/index.html https://obdev.at/products/microsnitch/index.html
- mi100hael 10y agoThe article mentions OverSight [1] which is free. [1] https://objective-see.com/products/oversight.html https://objective-see.com/products/oversight.html
- rasz_pl 10y agoIm having a Chromium hotword flashbacks https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=500922 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=500922
- serge2k 10y ago> If the mic wasn’t left on, it would take the app longer to both initialize the mic and then start buffering audio How much longer?
- EwanToo 10y agoYou need 3-5 seconds of audio to do the recognition. It sounds like Shazam is storing the 5 seconds buffered, ready to hash then upload when you press go
- dom96 10y agoI use the iOS Shazam app rather often and always wonder why it takes it so long to launch. Even after it launches, I cannot immediately press the "Shazam" button (this is rather infuriating sometimes). Could initialising the mic really take that long, even on an iPhone?
- calvinbhai 10y agoinitializing any hardware takes some time. Be it the microphone, the speaker, the taptic engine (or the making the phone vibrate at the exact moment), access to location (gps can probably be the longest initialization time), all need some initialization time before they can be used as expected.
- nitrogen 10y agoOpening an audio device and starting recording should take less than a few hundred milliseconds. Shazam may be looking backward in time to build its fingerprint, so it would need to buffer some audio first.
- gcr 10y agoJust ask Siri, "What song is this playing?" It uses Shazam and doesn't require the app to be installed.
- ChristianGeek 10y agoTry asking Siri what song is playing...she uses Shazam technology to answer and does so in a lot less time than it takes to launch the Shazam app, wait for it to be ready, tap the button, and get a response. (You can switch to the Shazam app from Siri's response if you want.)
- pmontra 10y agoThey should start building hardware switches on mics, cameras, WiFi, Bluetooth etc. And we should be able to check that they really work.
- zlatan_todoric 10y agoWe do this with our products https://puri.sm/learn/hardware-kill-switches/ https://puri.sm/learn/hardware-kill-switches/ although it would be really good to get more players into same field.
- randall 10y agoCan you guys add a real GPU? I'd buy in a second if it was available.
- zlatan_todoric 10y agoAdding nVidia and AMD GPUs would require us to have nonfree drivers or firmwares so that would be against our philosophy. Also adding proprietary stuff is against our goal of creating secure yet convenient OS (we try to free or create things that people need, not close them down even more).
- Joof 10y agoI also like the idea of building the notification LED for cameras directly into the circuit so that it can't turn on the camera without the LED.
- TheGorramBatman 10y agoRelevant: https://www.usenix.org/node/184422 https://www.usenix.org/node/184422 "iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED"
- SG- 10y agoThis doesn't work with recent MacBooks, only the older models.
- mstade 10y agoAt first I thought, this Oversight app sounds like it could be useful. And then I thought, how do I know this Oversight app isn't spying on me? Ex-NSA author unfortunately isn't something that makes me more confident in the tool. Why am I even worried that someone is spying on me? Oh how I miss blissful ignorance some times.
- atomical 10y agoIt would be nice if the user had the option to not have it in the menu bar. My menu bar is cluttered up with so much stuff now.
- rbritton 10y agoBartender is a great help with that: https://www.macbartender.com https://www.macbartender.com No affiliation other than being a satisfied user.
- JadeNB 10y ago> And then I thought, how do I know this Oversight app isn't spying on me? While I agree that you don't know that this app isn't spying on you, surely it doesn't decrease the trustworthiness of your computer? In some sense, it seems to me like centralising all your distrust in a single person: you now have only to trust the author of this piece of software, rather than of every piece of software you use.
- mstade 10y agoMy point wasn't so much whether this app spies on me or not, but that this is now a question that has to be asked for all apps – no matter who you are really. It's a sad state of affairs.
- wmeredith 10y ago"When a user of Shazam’s Mac app turns the app “OFF,” the app actually keeps the microphone on in the background. For the security researcher who discovered that the mic is always on, it's a bug that users should know about." That's not a bug. It's intentionally deceptive software.
- myowncrapulence 10y agoIs this not illegal? Wouldn't this software be considered "hacking" as it is: "modifying or altering computer software and hardware to accomplish a goal that is considered to be outside of the creator's original objective"
- ramblenode 10y agoOr a wiretap.
- fucking_tragedy 10y agoIt accomplishes Shazam's goal and was voluntarily installed. I think what I wrote is a fallacious argument, but can't ignore that interpretation.
- myowncrapulence 10y agoI'm not talking about Shazam. I'm talking about subverting Apple's macOS intentions of "quitting the app"
- nicky0 10y agoShazam subverts nothing. When you quit the app it stops listening. The "off" part is an in app setting. Furthermore while set off the microphone is only doing is local pre-buffering.
- hobarrera 10y ago> "modifying or altering computer software and hardware to accomplish a goal that is considered to be outside of the creator's original objective" How would you make "keep a microphone open for faster startup, (which is the creator's original objective)" fit into the above definition.
- mabbo 10y agoSo why have the 'off' button at all? If it doesn't change anything putting it there is purely to trick users.
- sveiss 10y ago"If the mic wasn’t left on, it would take the app longer to both initialize the mic and then start buffering audio" Leaving aside any privacy concerns, it's reasonable that everybody with this installed loses some battery life leaving the audio hardware powered up all day on the off-chance they might want to tag a song at the very last moment at some point? It's not like the latency to start an audio stream on the Mac is huge to start with.
- dpark 10y agoThis is my problem with this behavior. The reality is that if Shazam is malicious, it can grab data at any time without always grabbing data. Having them turn this off doesn't block them from being evil and grabbing audio when it suits them to do so. It would make it harder to mask the behavior, I guess, but that's a pretty weak guarantee. On the other hand, this kind of behavior steals real resources from the system. In aggregate, apps that do this can waste noticeable battery and slow the system considerably. I don't want random apps deciding they're "important enough" to always run. It's user hostile even if it's not intended to be.
- nicky0 10y agoShazam doesn't "always run". Don't want Shazam running? Simply quit Shazam. The on/off setting in dispute is an option within Shazam itself.
- dpark 10y agoIf that's true, then I don't personally care whether they are constantly capturing audio and discarding it. While that isn't as ideal as, you know, not doing always capturing audio, if it saves half a second when the user decides to capture audio and stops when the app is closed, I can understand that tradeoff. I don't have Shazam installed on my laptop and honestly can't imagine I ever will, so this is academic for me.
- nicky0 10y agoExactly. The sole purpose of the app is to capture background audio and analyse it. Don't want that? Don't run it. This seems to be a storm in a teacup. We're not talking a Dropbox-like system hijacking here.
- guihub-io 10y agoIt seems to me that Shazam turns the microphone on as soon as the app in launched on iOS. Yesterday I wanted to Shazam the second song of an Instagram video playing on my computer. The app was open while the first song was playing and I pressed the record button as soon as the second one started playing. I was really surprised to notice that the song found by Shazam was the first one and not the second.
- gcr 10y agoJust ask Siri, "What song is this?" It uses Shazam and doesn't require the app to be installed.
- ChristianGeek 10y agoYou can also ask her to "name that tune!"
- andrewfromx 10y agothis is a very deep question, if you record audio and only a computer listens to it, does anyone hear it? it's totally the tree falling in the forest with no one around does it make a sound.
- chx 10y ago> If the mic wasn’t left on, it would take the app longer to both initialize the mic and then start buffering audio > the mic is kept on “for technical reasons” but “no audio is processed Beg your pardon? That's two, contradictory statements. You are either buffering the audio or not. If yes, then the "no audio is processed" is very thin truth. If not, then the only time you win it takes for the Mac to switch the mic on, surely that takes a very small fraction of a second...?
- nicky0 10y agoThe audio is buffered but not otherwise processed. I would not call buffering processing. The statement "not processed" in the context is reasonable.
- yolesaber 10y agoIf you're on a mac, go to Sound in System Preferences. Click Input. Do you see activity in the input monitor? That means your microphone has been on the entire time you've used your computer and has heard everything you said. I HIGHLY recommend disabling your internal mic. So does Apple. http://images.apple.com/support/security/guides/docs/Leopard_Security_Config_2nd_Ed.pdf http://images.apple.com/support/security/guides/docs/Leopard...
- lpgauth 10y agoIs there a more recent version of that guide (e.g. for Sierra)?
- yolesaber 10y agoNot sure, haven't come across it. Here's a pretty paranoid setup, can't totally vouch for it though https://github.com/drduh/macOS-Security-and-Privacy-Guide https://github.com/drduh/macOS-Security-and-Privacy-Guide
- slantaclaus 10y agoDisable the microphone on your iPhone too. STRONG rec
- SimpleMinds 10y ago"activity in the input monitor" Hi. Are you sure about that? Using one of the other tools mentioned here (Oversight) it looks like Microphone starts when you open Input and closes when you close Input tab. Which makes sense as you do want to see Input feedback instantly. Mac 10.11
- orbitingpluto 10y agoShazam keeping the microphone on at all times on the Mac shouldn't be a surprise considering that it is already well known that Shazam has been keeping the microphone on at all times on the iOS platform. (sorry for the forbes link: http://www.forbes.com/sites/katherynthayer/2013/12/19/the-always-on-auto-shazam/#30088907b787 http://www.forbes.com/sites/katherynthayer/2013/12/19/the-al... )
- zimpenfish 10y agoYou have to specifically enable that and you get the big red status bar that tells you the microphone is on. Unless there's a way for an app to use the microphone without that appearing?
- huehehue 10y agoDo other "on-demand" voice-activated apps use this same technique? I know that Google Now, Siri, Amazon Echo, and others respond to commands like "Ok Google [...]". Those devices must necessarily be listening if they're to catch those voice commands, right? Or is there a more clever solution for recognizing predetermined phrases?
- wcrichton 10y agoPhones usually have fixed-function low-power hardware dedicated to listening ambiently for phrases like "Ok Google." So yes, it is technically always on, but no, it's not understanding what you're saying or uploading it to the cloud.
- dredmorbius 10y agoAnd this is why hardware devices must not have onboard microphones, but rather rely on jacked-in devices which can be isolated through physical separation. Note that Bluetooth is not an acceptable substitute.