5 ms·

Chelsea Manning Asks President for Clemency and 'First Chance at Life'

27 points by endswapper 10y ago

bdcravens 10y ago
Chelsea was sentenced in 2013, well under the influence of the Obama administration. (Ditto for the leaks, in 2010) Typically the presidential pardons we see are the last minute stamp of ideology, not undoing of their legacy.
- marcoperaza 10y ago
  Or if you're Bill Clinton, some last minute corruption. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controversy#Pardons_and_commutations_signed_on_President_Clinton.27s_final_day_in_office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controvers... . Though I guess that corruption is the Clinton ideology...
  - serge2k 10y ago
    > Though I guess that corruption is the Clinton ideology and yet, despite apparently knowing this for 30 years. Investigating it constantly for 30 years. Neither of them have had anything actually stick to them. Amazing. They must be the smartest criminals ever. or not crooks.
    - marcoperaza 10y ago
      The head of a crime family rarely falls. Their underlings take the falls for them.
    - CptJamesCook 10y ago
      The Mark Rich pardon was purely wrong, and yet perhaps not illegal.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    - GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
      They couldn't stick anything on Reagan either.
lightbyte 10y ago
Not a chance, she committed actual treason as it's defined in our constitution by grabbing as many classified documents as she could and releasing them to the world with no regard for what they actually contained. She's lucky that she only got 35 years.
- gizmo686 10y ago
  "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court."
  - mzw_mzw 10y ago
    > or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. Yep, there we go. Thanks!
mrottenkolber 10y ago
:-(
doe88 10y ago
Unlikely. I would be very surprised if president Obama granted this request. And that's just one of many reasons why democrats did not have a strong turn-out, they lost touch with their base. As corollary a very good article in WaPo by Glenn Greenwald https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/11/glenn-greenwald-trump-will-have-vast-powers-he-can-thank-democrats-for-them/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/11/...
- bogomipz 10y ago
  I am not all following how you are connecting the Democrats losing touch with their base and the question of whether Obama is likely to pardon this individual.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    Part of the reason I did not go out to vote for Clinton was because she was a continuation of Obama's policies; civilian collateral damage from extrajudicial drone strikes, no pardon for Edward Snowden, the possibility of a drawn out proxy war in Syria, as well as no stop to the NSA domestic surveillence program. (Neoliberalism = "Republican lite") You might retort "But Trump! (and his threats of killing families of terrorists, etc)". If Clinton was elected it would've been business as usual, everyone would've gone back to their bread and circuses. Not now though. I hope Obama has the fortitude to pardon Manning and Snowden if he's going to jump on the political grenade of pardoning Clinton. [1] Sidenote: Trump has already swung moderate, deciding to stick with NATO [2] and keeping most of the ACA after speaking with Obama [3]. Maybe he doesn't stick to those ideals, but its clear Trump the president may not be as bad as Trump the person. I have hope, but I had hope for Sanders as well. (Excitingly enough, the /r/SandersForPresident subreddit was reactived today, with ~210k active subscribers). [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-11-10/giuliani-says-president-obama-shouldn-t-pardon-hillary-clinton http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-11-10/giulia... [2] http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-11-14/obama-says-trump-told-him-he-supports-u-s-commitment-to-nato http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-11-14/obama-... [3] http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-hedges-health-care-points-amending-aca http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-hedges-health-...
mzw_mzw 10y ago
Maybe should have thought of that before stealing all that classified information and leaking it to hostile nations, huh? It really is bizarre how people demand, not just that they can commit crimes for political reasons, but that crimes committed for political reasons not be punished.
- kafkaesq 10y ago
  Maybe this country, as a whole, should have thought about the fact that for as long it insists on committing war crimes against foreign peoples, on massive scales -- inevitably, the boldest and bravest among its citizenry will feel compelled to expose those crimes, and bring those responsible to justice.
  - mzw_mzw 10y ago
    The boldest and bravest, huh? I thought we were talking about Manning. Incidentally, what are the war crimes that were specifically revealed by this leak?
    - cpleppert 10y ago
      >> Incidentally, what are the war crimes that were specifically revealed by this leak? I guess the same as the massive corruption exposed by the brave Julian Assange of the infamous organized criminal organization known as the DNC. What? All the emails occurred after Sanders mathematically lost the nomination? Are you telling me the DNC was trying to support the certain nominee in a general election? Horrible and shocking! On a related note the DNC scheduled so few debates because they wanted to help Clinton clearly. (Just ignore the fact that the number of debates was comparable to 2008 with far less candidates and a less competitive race.)
    - kafkaesq 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007_Baghdad_airstrike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007_Baghdad_airstrik...

27 points by endswapper 10y ago

Chelsea was sentenced in 2013, well under the influence of the Obama administration. (Ditto for the leaks, in 2010) Typically the presidential pardons we see are the last minute stamp of ideology, not undoing of their legacy.

marcoperaza 10y ago
Or if you're Bill Clinton, some last minute corruption. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controversy#Pardons_and_commutations_signed_on_President_Clinton.27s_final_day_in_office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controvers... . Though I guess that corruption is the Clinton ideology...
- serge2k 10y ago
  > Though I guess that corruption is the Clinton ideology and yet, despite apparently knowing this for 30 years. Investigating it constantly for 30 years. Neither of them have had anything actually stick to them. Amazing. They must be the smartest criminals ever. or not crooks.
  - marcoperaza 10y ago
    The head of a crime family rarely falls. Their underlings take the falls for them.
  - CptJamesCook 10y ago
    The Mark Rich pardon was purely wrong, and yet perhaps not illegal.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
    They couldn't stick anything on Reagan either.

lightbyte 10y ago

Not a chance, she committed actual treason as it's defined in our constitution by grabbing as many classified documents as she could and releasing them to the world with no regard for what they actually contained. She's lucky that she only got 35 years.

gizmo686 10y ago
"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court."
- mzw_mzw 10y ago
  > or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. Yep, there we go. Thanks!

mrottenkolber 10y ago

:-(

doe88 10y ago

Unlikely. I would be very surprised if president Obama granted this request. And that's just one of many reasons why democrats did not have a strong turn-out, they lost touch with their base. As corollary a very good article in WaPo by Glenn Greenwald https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/11/glenn-greenwald-trump-will-have-vast-powers-he-can-thank-democrats-for-them/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/11/...

bogomipz 10y ago
I am not all following how you are connecting the Democrats losing touch with their base and the question of whether Obama is likely to pardon this individual.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Part of the reason I did not go out to vote for Clinton was because she was a continuation of Obama's policies; civilian collateral damage from extrajudicial drone strikes, no pardon for Edward Snowden, the possibility of a drawn out proxy war in Syria, as well as no stop to the NSA domestic surveillence program. (Neoliberalism = "Republican lite") You might retort "But Trump! (and his threats of killing families of terrorists, etc)". If Clinton was elected it would've been business as usual, everyone would've gone back to their bread and circuses. Not now though. I hope Obama has the fortitude to pardon Manning and Snowden if he's going to jump on the political grenade of pardoning Clinton. [1] Sidenote: Trump has already swung moderate, deciding to stick with NATO [2] and keeping most of the ACA after speaking with Obama [3]. Maybe he doesn't stick to those ideals, but its clear Trump the president may not be as bad as Trump the person. I have hope, but I had hope for Sanders as well. (Excitingly enough, the /r/SandersForPresident subreddit was reactived today, with ~210k active subscribers). [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-11-10/giuliani-says-president-obama-shouldn-t-pardon-hillary-clinton http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-11-10/giulia... [2] http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-11-14/obama-says-trump-told-him-he-supports-u-s-commitment-to-nato http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-11-14/obama-... [3] http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-hedges-health-care-points-amending-aca http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-hedges-health-...

mzw_mzw 10y ago

Maybe should have thought of that before stealing all that classified information and leaking it to hostile nations, huh? It really is bizarre how people demand, not just that they can commit crimes for political reasons, but that crimes committed for political reasons not be punished.

kafkaesq 10y ago
Maybe this country, as a whole, should have thought about the fact that for as long it insists on committing war crimes against foreign peoples, on massive scales -- inevitably, the boldest and bravest among its citizenry will feel compelled to expose those crimes, and bring those responsible to justice.
- mzw_mzw 10y ago
  The boldest and bravest, huh? I thought we were talking about Manning. Incidentally, what are the war crimes that were specifically revealed by this leak?
  - cpleppert 10y ago
    >> Incidentally, what are the war crimes that were specifically revealed by this leak? I guess the same as the massive corruption exposed by the brave Julian Assange of the infamous organized criminal organization known as the DNC. What? All the emails occurred after Sanders mathematically lost the nomination? Are you telling me the DNC was trying to support the certain nominee in a general election? Horrible and shocking! On a related note the DNC scheduled so few debates because they wanted to help Clinton clearly. (Just ignore the fact that the number of debates was comparable to 2008 with far less candidates and a less competitive race.)
  - kafkaesq 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007_Baghdad_airstrike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007_Baghdad_airstrik...