4 ms·

They also reviewed the new Lenovo Yoga 910, which seems to be a good alternative for people that don't rely on MacOS: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/11/le

They also reviewed the new Lenovo Yoga 910, which seems to be a good alternative for people that don't rely on MacOS: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/11/lenovo-yoga-910-review-an-elegant-upgrade-with-minor-compromises/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/11/lenovo-yoga-910-revie... It even has a 4K touch-enabled display.

gokhan 10y ago
I have a ThinkPad 450s with touch, and I regret buying one with a touch screen. It's almost impossible to see the screen under daylight, expensive, consumes more power and I only use touch when I use the laptop in cramped places, like a plane flight. Great machine otherwise, but I couldn't find my use case for touch enabled laptops. For a while, I thought it would be useful if the screen was detachable as in the MS' Surface device, but realized that I'm also not using my iPad that much to justify the use case.
CountSessine 10y ago
I sort of feel like anytime someone reviews a Lenovo laptop, they have a responsibility to mention in the review whether there's any of Lenovo's EFI dickery like self-reinstalling windows drivers, expunged options, or SSL-interposing malware included. Right now the guidance seems to be that if you get a Yoga you'll get the dickery, if you get a thinkpad you'll be ok. But I'd really like to see reviewers call this out explicitly. It's also worth pointing out that the 910 can't be a MacBook replacement with that nonstandard keyboard layout.
- WorldMaker 10y ago
  Third option is to buy a "Signature Edition" [1][2] from the Microsoft Store (or participating retail stores such as some Best Buys and Staples, I think, if you ask nicely to someone that has the right sort of a clue). Microsoft's Signature Edition program expressly forbids selling the machine with anything more than a clean Windows install. It's definitely what I've started recommending anytime anyone mentions to me to be thinking about a new Windows computer. [1] https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/categoryID.69916600 https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/categor... [2] The Yoga, for example: https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Lenovo-Yoga-910-13IKB-80VF-Signature-Edition-2-in-1-PC/productID.5072380300 https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Lenovo-...
  - CountSessine 10y ago
    Interesting - so they would actually use a different/clean EFI image on those? If so, then I agree - that's by far the best way to get a Windows laptop. I'll pass on the recommendation next time someone asks me. It does seem to be a bit more expensive, though; at least for Canadians. I'm seeing a $700 delta between what I'm seeing there and on the Dell store. Is that usual?
    - WorldMaker 10y ago
      That's typical PC par for the course of different stores selling roughly the same machine at different prices. Just like some of the bad old days some of the OEM's Signature Edition PCs aren't ever quite one-for-one comparable models to their website/direct sales (or even to some of the other stores they sell in). It has long been the case that manufacturers have slightly different model numbers and subtly different configurations for every single retail channel they interact with so you can't always tell if you are getting a good deal or not. There also is a case that some of the manufacturers do get enough advertising kickbacks from the junk they bundle with the computer that you do see some of that "savings" passed back to you as a consumer with the premium added to the Signature Editions. So far as I'm aware (merely as a consumer) Signature Edition does seem to require a clean EFI image as well. I've seen reports that things like Lenovo's EFI problems are things the Signature Edition team screens for (for instance this PC Mag article specifically mentioning Superfish [1]), but I can't tell you how thoroughly they check, just that I feel sure they try. [1] http://www.pcworld.com/article/2887213/microsofts-signature-edition-laptops-deliver-the-clean-pc-experience-you-really-want.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2887213/microsofts-signature-...

gokhan 10y ago

I have a ThinkPad 450s with touch, and I regret buying one with a touch screen. It's almost impossible to see the screen under daylight, expensive, consumes more power and I only use touch when I use the laptop in cramped places, like a plane flight. Great machine otherwise, but I couldn't find my use case for touch enabled laptops. For a while, I thought it would be useful if the screen was detachable as in the MS' Surface device, but realized that I'm also not using my iPad that much to justify the use case.

CountSessine 10y ago

I sort of feel like anytime someone reviews a Lenovo laptop, they have a responsibility to mention in the review whether there's any of Lenovo's EFI dickery like self-reinstalling windows drivers, expunged options, or SSL-interposing malware included. Right now the guidance seems to be that if you get a Yoga you'll get the dickery, if you get a thinkpad you'll be ok. But I'd really like to see reviewers call this out explicitly. It's also worth pointing out that the 910 can't be a MacBook replacement with that nonstandard keyboard layout.

WorldMaker 10y ago
Third option is to buy a "Signature Edition" [1][2] from the Microsoft Store (or participating retail stores such as some Best Buys and Staples, I think, if you ask nicely to someone that has the right sort of a clue). Microsoft's Signature Edition program expressly forbids selling the machine with anything more than a clean Windows install. It's definitely what I've started recommending anytime anyone mentions to me to be thinking about a new Windows computer. [1] https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/categoryID.69916600 https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/categor... [2] The Yoga, for example: https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Lenovo-Yoga-910-13IKB-80VF-Signature-Edition-2-in-1-PC/productID.5072380300 https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Lenovo-...
- CountSessine 10y ago
  Interesting - so they would actually use a different/clean EFI image on those? If so, then I agree - that's by far the best way to get a Windows laptop. I'll pass on the recommendation next time someone asks me. It does seem to be a bit more expensive, though; at least for Canadians. I'm seeing a $700 delta between what I'm seeing there and on the Dell store. Is that usual?
  - WorldMaker 10y ago
    That's typical PC par for the course of different stores selling roughly the same machine at different prices. Just like some of the bad old days some of the OEM's Signature Edition PCs aren't ever quite one-for-one comparable models to their website/direct sales (or even to some of the other stores they sell in). It has long been the case that manufacturers have slightly different model numbers and subtly different configurations for every single retail channel they interact with so you can't always tell if you are getting a good deal or not. There also is a case that some of the manufacturers do get enough advertising kickbacks from the junk they bundle with the computer that you do see some of that "savings" passed back to you as a consumer with the premium added to the Signature Editions. So far as I'm aware (merely as a consumer) Signature Edition does seem to require a clean EFI image as well. I've seen reports that things like Lenovo's EFI problems are things the Signature Edition team screens for (for instance this PC Mag article specifically mentioning Superfish [1]), but I can't tell you how thoroughly they check, just that I feel sure they try. [1] http://www.pcworld.com/article/2887213/microsofts-signature-edition-laptops-deliver-the-clean-pc-experience-you-really-want.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2887213/microsofts-signature-...