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Hi! We're building a CRM for local governments (https://romuluscrm.com https://romuluscrm.com), in 2016, so I can tell you what we do. Front end: We use Ember

by tyre 10y ago

Hi! We're building a CRM for local governments (https://romuluscrm.com https://romuluscrm.com), in 2016, so I can tell you what we do. Front end: We use Ember because of its balanced focus on progress and stability. The team behind it is solid and batteries are included. Application: Ruby/Rails, Elixir/Phoenix. Rails is great for getting up and running quickly, and your problems with #scale won't be on the application later. Elixir (really Erlang's BEAM) is great at quickly spinning up/down lightweight processes that handle raw data. So if you want to build a CRM and, say, manage emails, then it could be a good fit. Or if you want to process a 1,000,000 row CSV import, etc. Database: Postgres. Binary JSON columns give you flexibility, plus PostGIS for all of your geospatial needs. Structure as much as possible to take advantage of the smart people who have spent countless hours building a world class database. You'll appreciate their focus on correctness. My overarching advice: push everything as far down the stack as possible. If you can do it in Postgres, do so. Data correctness is your life; better that your DB throws a fit than your application serving bogus data. Happy to answer any specific questions! (And I wouldn't be a YC CEO if I didn't take the opportunity to mention that we're hiring! http://seneca.systems/careers http://seneca.systems/careers)

moflome 10y ago
+1 For Postgres with Binary JSON, when that feature was added a few years ago it completed changed the value prop in how we respond to customer requests (them: "can you please add two extra fields for fax numbers?" us: "who needs two fax numbers?") @Tyre: we use React on the front end but have struggled with meeting customer's UI expectations for Master/Detail displays of tabular data... the mobile UI design paradigms on this are so rich, are there any best practices for web UI? Thanks!
- arethuza 10y ago
  Quite a few applications (e.g. Dynamics CRM) dynamically create database columns when fields are added at the application layer - works pretty well and create a relatively clean relational data model. NB Mind you - I can definitely see the advantages of using JSON but a lot of developers seem to resist dynamically altering relational database structures when it can actually work pretty well.
- tyre 10y ago
  Our first hire on the product side was a UX/Product designer specifically for this reason. CRMs are incredibly complex and making it easy to use is a real challenge. What expectations are you having trouble with? As for mobile, I wouldn't try to have it do everything that the desktop version does. It's just not possible, at least not well, with that size screen and type of input.
  - moflome 10y ago
    The point I was trying to make about mobile is that "master/detail" patterns are well established and the UX clear (cf. Android & iOS default address book apps); this is not the case on the web. Each of SFDC, SugarCRM, Insightly (and presumably Romulus) uses a different pattern. And if you look at front-end frameworks for guidance (Bootstrap, Foundation, cx_codaxy [0]) most don't do more that provide data tables with in-line edit; rather tedious for CRM with several dozen fields. We try to use UX analysis tools and interview users (Inspectlet, UserTesting) but we still sense a lot of frustration & confusion... Sorry, this is heading off topic for the OP, but interesting to note the priority of your first hire -- smart choice! [0] http://cx.codaxy.com http://cx.codaxy.com
SnowingXIV 10y ago
This response is exactly what I was looking for. Absolutely love the breakdown. I looked at Ember awhile back for a different project, and it seemed really robust (more than what I needed then!) but for this I think you guys made a solid choice. I'm also a big fan of Postgres so this stack wouldn't be too scary to embark on. Yep you're right, most of these are essentially putting a UI on a database and that part has to be right - otherwise you have much bigger problems. Hah, well if things don't exactly work out I'll have http://seneca.systems/careers/product/front-end-engineer http://seneca.systems/careers/product/front-end-engineer bookmarked.
instakill 10y ago
Your pricing mentions case management but I can't find an explanation anywhere what erm... case management even is. Sorry I'm not in govt, just curious.
- ncd 10y ago
  This page has more info about case management in Romulus: https://www.romuluscrm.com/centralize.html https://www.romuluscrm.com/centralize.html
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by tyre 10y ago

moflome 10y ago

+1 For Postgres with Binary JSON, when that feature was added a few years ago it completed changed the value prop in how we respond to customer requests (them: "can you please add two extra fields for fax numbers?" us: "who needs two fax numbers?") @Tyre: we use React on the front end but have struggled with meeting customer's UI expectations for Master/Detail displays of tabular data... the mobile UI design paradigms on this are so rich, are there any best practices for web UI? Thanks!

arethuza 10y ago
Quite a few applications (e.g. Dynamics CRM) dynamically create database columns when fields are added at the application layer - works pretty well and create a relatively clean relational data model. NB Mind you - I can definitely see the advantages of using JSON but a lot of developers seem to resist dynamically altering relational database structures when it can actually work pretty well.
tyre 10y ago
Our first hire on the product side was a UX/Product designer specifically for this reason. CRMs are incredibly complex and making it easy to use is a real challenge. What expectations are you having trouble with? As for mobile, I wouldn't try to have it do everything that the desktop version does. It's just not possible, at least not well, with that size screen and type of input.
- moflome 10y ago
  The point I was trying to make about mobile is that "master/detail" patterns are well established and the UX clear (cf. Android & iOS default address book apps); this is not the case on the web. Each of SFDC, SugarCRM, Insightly (and presumably Romulus) uses a different pattern. And if you look at front-end frameworks for guidance (Bootstrap, Foundation, cx_codaxy [0]) most don't do more that provide data tables with in-line edit; rather tedious for CRM with several dozen fields. We try to use UX analysis tools and interview users (Inspectlet, UserTesting) but we still sense a lot of frustration & confusion... Sorry, this is heading off topic for the OP, but interesting to note the priority of your first hire -- smart choice! [0] http://cx.codaxy.com http://cx.codaxy.com

SnowingXIV 10y ago

This response is exactly what I was looking for. Absolutely love the breakdown. I looked at Ember awhile back for a different project, and it seemed really robust (more than what I needed then!) but for this I think you guys made a solid choice. I'm also a big fan of Postgres so this stack wouldn't be too scary to embark on. Yep you're right, most of these are essentially putting a UI on a database and that part has to be right - otherwise you have much bigger problems. Hah, well if things don't exactly work out I'll have http://seneca.systems/careers/product/front-end-engineer http://seneca.systems/careers/product/front-end-engineer bookmarked.

instakill 10y ago

Your pricing mentions case management but I can't find an explanation anywhere what erm... case management even is. Sorry I'm not in govt, just curious.

ncd 10y ago
This page has more info about case management in Romulus: https://www.romuluscrm.com/centralize.html https://www.romuluscrm.com/centralize.html

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]