6 ms·

What is the simple, appropriately engineered solution?

edblarney 10y ago
"What is the simple, appropriately engineered solution?" To hide them. The Germans are not going to spend a division of soldiers 4 years to dig up all of Copenhagen. There are innumerable places to hide them. They also could have simply been deformed i.e. markings removed, then they're just clumps of gold and evidence of nothing.
- jandrese 10y ago
  Um, they were stealing everything not nailed down. Your response reads like "now it's just worthless gold!" Yes, they probably could have buried it in the woods somewhere, but that wouldn't have made for the cool story to tell the grandkids.
- varjag 10y ago
  Turing did that with his silver, look how that worked for him. And there weren't even Nazis around!
- tim333 10y ago
  >"I suggested that we should bury the medal(s)," but Bohr thought no, the Germans would dig up the grounds, the garden, search everywhere in the building. Too dangerous. Though I guess they could have found somewhere else...
  - endisukaj 10y ago
    I took that to mean that there was not much time as Nazis were patrolling the streets, going out with two large gold medals would be extremely dangerous as they might have been stopped and searched.
- theandrewbailey 10y ago
  > To hide them. That's kind of what was done. It was a clever simple hack. I'm not sure how hard it is to prepare aqua regia (maybe they had a sufficient quantity already), but all they had to do was drop the metals in, wait, and place on a shelf with other innocuous flasks and solutions.
- mikeash 10y ago
  This takes the tech community's propensity for Monday-morning quarterbacking to a breathtaking new level. Yes, I'm sure you came up with a much better solution in your sixty seconds of thinking in your comfortable chair than the people on the spot, faced with literal Nazis, did at the time. Just hide them! I wonder why Nobel laureate Niels Bohr and future Nobel laureate George de Hevesy didn't think of that.
  - edblarney 10y ago
    "Just hide them! I wonder why Nobel laureate Niels Bohr and future Nobel laureate George de Hevesy didn't think of that." Because they are geniuses and probably over-think everything. It would take 20 minutes to find a spot to hide them, and they wouldn't be recovered for 1000 years if people weren't the wiser. But it would be pointless because you can remove the markings with any hard objects, basically instantly. The Nazis were not 'hunting' for this stuff, even if they were, it wouldn't be worth any effort. Step 1) take a hammer to them and remove the markings. Gold is soft and malleable. Evidence = gone. 5 minutes. If you're worried about having arbitrary bits of unmarked gold: + Throw it in the garbage next door + Throw it in a bag in the harbour + Bury them in the lane or garden around the corner + Throw it in the sewer It's just a couple of small bits of unmarked gold at that point. Wherever it's found - or not - it's meaningless.
    - pmoriarty 10y ago
      "Because they are geniuses and probably over-think everything." There are some anecdotes to the contrary. Enrico Fermi famously estimated the strength of the first atomic bomb by "dropping from about six feet small pieces of paper before, during and after the passage of the blast wave." Richard Feynman tested the integrity of an o-ring which he concluded must have caused the Challenger disaster by dropping the o-ring in to a glass of cold water and noticing its deformation. These are but the first two examples that spring to mind of simple solutions found by "geniuses". I'd also categorize the way the gold medals were hidden as another simple (and brilliant) solution. It would be interesting to read a compilation of such anecdotes, if one exists.
- BurningFrog 10y ago
  If you're Bohr, you have to assume that the Nazi army will impose a shoot-on-sight curfew when they reach your part of Copenhagen in a few hours or less.
- nerdponx 10y ago
  The article so specifically stated that he was concerned the Germans would dig up the place. Also consider that there might be others interested in a large gold disk
  - edblarney 10y ago
    "The article so specifically stated that he was concerned the Germans would dig up the place" The Nazis would surely dig up his offices, but not Copenhagen. Moreover, the Nazis didn't even know that those things were there - and they don't really have much value at all to the Nazis. They're a couple of pieces of gold. The Nazis could do whatever they pleased with whomever they wanted - it's ridiculous to think that a couple of tiny pieces of gold would have changed their view on what to do with an acclaimed scientist. It's laughable. They'll capture a Scientist and put him to work on whatever they want, or not. A couple of pieces of gold are totally irrelevant. If this were a bottle of 'heavy water' or some nuclear material, or piece of gear that they knew existed, knew was in his possession and had some strategic value, then they might spend some time looking for it. Otherwise this is not a story.
    - pmoriarty 10y ago
      "it's ridiculous to think that a couple of tiny pieces of gold would have changed their view on what to do with an acclaimed scientist. It's laughable." Many people were killed on a whim by the Nazis, without much if any reason at all. Being a famous scientist wouldn't necessarily save you (and especially not your valuables, which were frequently confiscated). Then there's a good chance that the grunts who searched these people wouldn't know who they were, wouldn't care, or even feel contempt or hatred for them because of who they were or what they said or did, and would in fact value gold far more than their lives.
      - edblarney 10y ago
        That's why hammering out the Nobel details and throwing them in the garbage, harbour, garden would have saved them entirely. Random gold found in the harbour does not implicate Bohr.
macspoofing 10y ago
Take a boat out and toss the medals into the sea?
- tim333 10y ago
  Wouldn't have been able to get the gold back that way.
  - macspoofing 10y ago
    I'm going to have to push back on this clear scope creep.

"What is the simple, appropriately engineered solution?" To hide them. The Germans are not going to spend a division of soldiers 4 years to dig up all of Copenhagen. There are innumerable places to hide them. They also could have simply been deformed i.e. markings removed, then they're just clumps of gold and evidence of nothing.

jandrese 10y ago
Um, they were stealing everything not nailed down. Your response reads like "now it's just worthless gold!" Yes, they probably could have buried it in the woods somewhere, but that wouldn't have made for the cool story to tell the grandkids.
varjag 10y ago
Turing did that with his silver, look how that worked for him. And there weren't even Nazis around!
tim333 10y ago
>"I suggested that we should bury the medal(s)," but Bohr thought no, the Germans would dig up the grounds, the garden, search everywhere in the building. Too dangerous. Though I guess they could have found somewhere else...
- endisukaj 10y ago
  I took that to mean that there was not much time as Nazis were patrolling the streets, going out with two large gold medals would be extremely dangerous as they might have been stopped and searched.
theandrewbailey 10y ago
> To hide them. That's kind of what was done. It was a clever simple hack. I'm not sure how hard it is to prepare aqua regia (maybe they had a sufficient quantity already), but all they had to do was drop the metals in, wait, and place on a shelf with other innocuous flasks and solutions.
mikeash 10y ago
This takes the tech community's propensity for Monday-morning quarterbacking to a breathtaking new level. Yes, I'm sure you came up with a much better solution in your sixty seconds of thinking in your comfortable chair than the people on the spot, faced with literal Nazis, did at the time. Just hide them! I wonder why Nobel laureate Niels Bohr and future Nobel laureate George de Hevesy didn't think of that.
- edblarney 10y ago
  "Just hide them! I wonder why Nobel laureate Niels Bohr and future Nobel laureate George de Hevesy didn't think of that." Because they are geniuses and probably over-think everything. It would take 20 minutes to find a spot to hide them, and they wouldn't be recovered for 1000 years if people weren't the wiser. But it would be pointless because you can remove the markings with any hard objects, basically instantly. The Nazis were not 'hunting' for this stuff, even if they were, it wouldn't be worth any effort. Step 1) take a hammer to them and remove the markings. Gold is soft and malleable. Evidence = gone. 5 minutes. If you're worried about having arbitrary bits of unmarked gold: + Throw it in the garbage next door + Throw it in a bag in the harbour + Bury them in the lane or garden around the corner + Throw it in the sewer It's just a couple of small bits of unmarked gold at that point. Wherever it's found - or not - it's meaningless.
  - pmoriarty 10y ago
    "Because they are geniuses and probably over-think everything." There are some anecdotes to the contrary. Enrico Fermi famously estimated the strength of the first atomic bomb by "dropping from about six feet small pieces of paper before, during and after the passage of the blast wave." Richard Feynman tested the integrity of an o-ring which he concluded must have caused the Challenger disaster by dropping the o-ring in to a glass of cold water and noticing its deformation. These are but the first two examples that spring to mind of simple solutions found by "geniuses". I'd also categorize the way the gold medals were hidden as another simple (and brilliant) solution. It would be interesting to read a compilation of such anecdotes, if one exists.
BurningFrog 10y ago
If you're Bohr, you have to assume that the Nazi army will impose a shoot-on-sight curfew when they reach your part of Copenhagen in a few hours or less.
nerdponx 10y ago
The article so specifically stated that he was concerned the Germans would dig up the place. Also consider that there might be others interested in a large gold disk
- edblarney 10y ago
  "The article so specifically stated that he was concerned the Germans would dig up the place" The Nazis would surely dig up his offices, but not Copenhagen. Moreover, the Nazis didn't even know that those things were there - and they don't really have much value at all to the Nazis. They're a couple of pieces of gold. The Nazis could do whatever they pleased with whomever they wanted - it's ridiculous to think that a couple of tiny pieces of gold would have changed their view on what to do with an acclaimed scientist. It's laughable. They'll capture a Scientist and put him to work on whatever they want, or not. A couple of pieces of gold are totally irrelevant. If this were a bottle of 'heavy water' or some nuclear material, or piece of gear that they knew existed, knew was in his possession and had some strategic value, then they might spend some time looking for it. Otherwise this is not a story.
  - pmoriarty 10y ago
    "it's ridiculous to think that a couple of tiny pieces of gold would have changed their view on what to do with an acclaimed scientist. It's laughable." Many people were killed on a whim by the Nazis, without much if any reason at all. Being a famous scientist wouldn't necessarily save you (and especially not your valuables, which were frequently confiscated). Then there's a good chance that the grunts who searched these people wouldn't know who they were, wouldn't care, or even feel contempt or hatred for them because of who they were or what they said or did, and would in fact value gold far more than their lives.
    - edblarney 10y ago
      That's why hammering out the Nobel details and throwing them in the garbage, harbour, garden would have saved them entirely. Random gold found in the harbour does not implicate Bohr.

macspoofing 10y ago

Take a boat out and toss the medals into the sea?

tim333 10y ago
Wouldn't have been able to get the gold back that way.
- macspoofing 10y ago
  I'm going to have to push back on this clear scope creep.