3 ms·

What I meant to emphasize was that Ada was well designed in the first place, and yes GC was a problem and so were some of the restrictions and aspects of the st

by 0xAA55 10y ago

What I meant to emphasize was that Ada was well designed in the first place, and yes GC was a problem and so were some of the restrictions and aspects of the standard libraries. For example, a big one was unconstrained types for generic actuals... C is a mine-field of devastating design flaws which have caused many people to die because of decades old decisions made on a whim and any change to basic libraries to make them safer and removing dangerous functions is heresy. As far as Python, yes the two versions of the language is troublesome for users but the language is objectively better and students learning programming for the first time benefit from a more robust version. Feel free to give me a random code snippet ;p

pjmlp 10y ago
I fully agree with you regarding C, but even though C++ happens to be copy-paste compatible with it, C++ isn't C. It does provide the necessary language features for security conscious developers to write safe code, the fact that many write C++ as if it was "C with C++ compiler" is an unfortunate one. Yes it would have been great that we had Ada instead of C++, sadly that wasn't what greedy Ada compiler vendors wanted us to have.
- 0xAA55 10y ago
  Indeed, except for all the flaws C++ decided to add from C including is cryptic syntax (i++, ++i, <<, ::, ?) and macros it is a good language. In fact, from that list it seems like it is finally meeting parody on key Ada 95 features -- so maybe we dont have to be so sad :)
AnimalMuppet 10y ago
> C is a mine-field of devastating design flaws which have caused many people to die because of decades old decisions made on a whim... Wow. Hyperbole much? I get that you don't like C, but you sound like a raving lunatic who is completely unconnected with reality. Devastating design flaws? Flaws I can agree with. Devastating? That sounds a bit overstated. Caused many people to die? I call BS. (Yes, I'm pretty sure you might be able to document a few. But you said "many", and I'm calling you on it.) Decisions made on a whim? Again, BS. In fact, at this point you're just making stuff up.
- 0xAA55 10y ago
  First of all what if I am lunatic xD There are so many parts of C that are unsafe that a secondary tool is needed to have an reasonable type-checking and that tends to be devastating if they can be easily avoided by even safety critical engineers. https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_... "Toyota does not claim to have followed MISRA Guidelines" And honestly I dont think we agree on what "a few" is. In my book if any more than 4 or 10 people die from a solved problem in computer science (like strong typing, mutexes, and range checking) that is already way too yes many As far as decisions on a whim compare the two language design efforts and i'll let you decide: http://www.adapower.com/index.php?Command=Class&ClassID=FAQ&CID=320 http://www.adapower.com/index.php?Command=Class&ClassID=FAQ&... "The requirements were not a language specification, but instead they attempted to define rigorously the needed characteristics in a form that could be critically reviewed." https://www.codingunit.com/the-history-of-the-c-language https://www.codingunit.com/the-history-of-the-c-language “It’s entirely Dennis Ritchie’s work”
  - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
    "Decided by one man" != "decided on a whim".
    - 0xAA55 10y ago
      "...despite the changes that it has undergone since its first published description, which was admittedly informal and incomplete..." ~ Dennis M. Ritchie It took a decade to even decide what the C language really was and standardize it -- sounds pretty undefined and whimsical to me. But we all use and understand words differently so let's agree to disagree :)

by 0xAA55 10y ago

pjmlp 10y ago

I fully agree with you regarding C, but even though C++ happens to be copy-paste compatible with it, C++ isn't C. It does provide the necessary language features for security conscious developers to write safe code, the fact that many write C++ as if it was "C with C++ compiler" is an unfortunate one. Yes it would have been great that we had Ada instead of C++, sadly that wasn't what greedy Ada compiler vendors wanted us to have.

0xAA55 10y ago
Indeed, except for all the flaws C++ decided to add from C including is cryptic syntax (i++, ++i, <<, ::, ?) and macros it is a good language. In fact, from that list it seems like it is finally meeting parody on key Ada 95 features -- so maybe we dont have to be so sad :)

AnimalMuppet 10y ago

> C is a mine-field of devastating design flaws which have caused many people to die because of decades old decisions made on a whim... Wow. Hyperbole much? I get that you don't like C, but you sound like a raving lunatic who is completely unconnected with reality. Devastating design flaws? Flaws I can agree with. Devastating? That sounds a bit overstated. Caused many people to die? I call BS. (Yes, I'm pretty sure you might be able to document a few. But you said "many", and I'm calling you on it.) Decisions made on a whim? Again, BS. In fact, at this point you're just making stuff up.

0xAA55 10y ago
First of all what if I am lunatic xD There are so many parts of C that are unsafe that a secondary tool is needed to have an reasonable type-checking and that tends to be devastating if they can be easily avoided by even safety critical engineers. https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_... "Toyota does not claim to have followed MISRA Guidelines" And honestly I dont think we agree on what "a few" is. In my book if any more than 4 or 10 people die from a solved problem in computer science (like strong typing, mutexes, and range checking) that is already way too yes many As far as decisions on a whim compare the two language design efforts and i'll let you decide: http://www.adapower.com/index.php?Command=Class&ClassID=FAQ&CID=320 http://www.adapower.com/index.php?Command=Class&ClassID=FAQ&... "The requirements were not a language specification, but instead they attempted to define rigorously the needed characteristics in a form that could be critically reviewed." https://www.codingunit.com/the-history-of-the-c-language https://www.codingunit.com/the-history-of-the-c-language “It’s entirely Dennis Ritchie’s work”
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  "Decided by one man" != "decided on a whim".
  - 0xAA55 10y ago
    "...despite the changes that it has undergone since its first published description, which was admittedly informal and incomplete..." ~ Dennis M. Ritchie It took a decade to even decide what the C language really was and standardize it -- sounds pretty undefined and whimsical to me. But we all use and understand words differently so let's agree to disagree :)