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>I'd be very surprised if shared self driving cars lead to a major reduction in excess parking, or lower the number of traffic jams. I agree. Years ago in a ce

by dba7dba 10y ago

>I'd be very surprised if shared self driving cars lead to a major reduction in excess parking, or lower the number of traffic jams. I agree. Years ago in a certain Asian city when chauffeurs were still common for well off families, traffic around luxury department stores was bad even during day time. A chauffeur would drop off the housewife for a shopping trip, and than he would drive around and around until her shopping was done (because parking is hard to find). I expect same thing to happen with self-driving cars.

CydeWeys 10y ago
You're still assuming that everyone owns their own self-driving car, though. Given that the average person only uses a car for one hour per day it's silly that you'd keep idle a car that can drive itself for those other 23 hours. It makes sense to share the entire fleet. So after you get dropped off at the mall, the car is off to pick up its next passenger, and you get whatever self-driving car happens to be closest when you're done shopping.
- mantas 10y ago
  One of the reasons I love having a car is storage. I can go chain-shopping and store items I bought in the car. Getting a random self-driving car would make me carry all the stuff I bought with me. Kinda sucks. Same with commuting or going to mass events. I keep some drinking water (fuck stadium/concerts pricing) in my car. I keep some gloves in case weather is colder than expected and to make sure I didn't accidentally forget them at home. Ditto on umbrella. I always got some reusable shopping bags in my trunk. Fuck paying for shitty plastic bags at grocery shop. My mom's trunk is literally full of random crap that she uses maybe twice a year. But she loves having it there. Using random cars (wether self-driving or not, e.g. regular taxi) would have to be much better to payoff for loosing this advantage.
  - CydeWeys 10y ago
    You would still be able to go chain-hopping with a self-driving car, you would just be paying to keep it engaged the entire time, rather than getting a separate car for each hop and only paying while you're actually in it. As for everything else, I totally get that not being able to keep stuff in your car is inconvenient. But there are billions of people out there who don't own cars who already deal with these issues every day, and they can be overcome. For instance, I live in NYC and I don't own a car. When I'm out of the apartment for longer periods of time I bring a backpack with me, packed with water, a Kindle (for amusing myself on subway rides), additional clothing suitable for the day's weather, an Anker battery pack to recharge my phone, and other stuff. The big advantage is that you are no longer paying the substantial costs of car ownership, which should more than make up for the slight decrease in convenience. If it doesn't for you, you could always buy your own self-driving car.
    - mantas 10y ago
      I totally get you and I'm not saying that car sharing doesn't work. We already got taxis and shared cars that we drive ourselves. Some people seem to be very hyped up by autonomous driving and think that most people would jump on that bandwagon. I'm giving perspective that a big chunk of population have reasons to buy their own cars. It'll definitely boil down to price of the service. Would I drop convenience of having my own car for 80% car budget saving? Yep. 10%? Meh.. 50%? Maybe. The "substantial costs of car ownership" depend on car. If you want to have (almost) new car, then yes, that's expensive. But after the car is paid off (or you just buy used with cash), car ownership isn't that expensive. Car sharing seems cheap compared to new(ish) car only. It's worth to own new(ish) car if you drive a lot and/or car must be available immediately 24/7. But car sharing service won't cut it for you then. Or if car is more than a mean of transportation. Car sharing won't fit the bill either. Unless autonomous car sharing would be few times cheaper than current car sharing. Even including all the junk miles.
- ryuker16 10y ago
  Except the issue with traffic is commuting which occurs at roughly the same time. You don't have much problem with Saturday shopping traffic .
  - CydeWeys 10y ago
    The idea that everyone needs to commute in a separate vehicle is an outdated notion whose time has past. It especially makes no sense with shared self-driving cars, which are more like small buses than privately owned passenger cars in function. The total number of vehicles on the road would end up drastically reduced.

by dba7dba 10y ago

CydeWeys 10y ago

You're still assuming that everyone owns their own self-driving car, though. Given that the average person only uses a car for one hour per day it's silly that you'd keep idle a car that can drive itself for those other 23 hours. It makes sense to share the entire fleet. So after you get dropped off at the mall, the car is off to pick up its next passenger, and you get whatever self-driving car happens to be closest when you're done shopping.

mantas 10y ago
One of the reasons I love having a car is storage. I can go chain-shopping and store items I bought in the car. Getting a random self-driving car would make me carry all the stuff I bought with me. Kinda sucks. Same with commuting or going to mass events. I keep some drinking water (fuck stadium/concerts pricing) in my car. I keep some gloves in case weather is colder than expected and to make sure I didn't accidentally forget them at home. Ditto on umbrella. I always got some reusable shopping bags in my trunk. Fuck paying for shitty plastic bags at grocery shop. My mom's trunk is literally full of random crap that she uses maybe twice a year. But she loves having it there. Using random cars (wether self-driving or not, e.g. regular taxi) would have to be much better to payoff for loosing this advantage.
- CydeWeys 10y ago
  You would still be able to go chain-hopping with a self-driving car, you would just be paying to keep it engaged the entire time, rather than getting a separate car for each hop and only paying while you're actually in it. As for everything else, I totally get that not being able to keep stuff in your car is inconvenient. But there are billions of people out there who don't own cars who already deal with these issues every day, and they can be overcome. For instance, I live in NYC and I don't own a car. When I'm out of the apartment for longer periods of time I bring a backpack with me, packed with water, a Kindle (for amusing myself on subway rides), additional clothing suitable for the day's weather, an Anker battery pack to recharge my phone, and other stuff. The big advantage is that you are no longer paying the substantial costs of car ownership, which should more than make up for the slight decrease in convenience. If it doesn't for you, you could always buy your own self-driving car.
  - mantas 10y ago
    I totally get you and I'm not saying that car sharing doesn't work. We already got taxis and shared cars that we drive ourselves. Some people seem to be very hyped up by autonomous driving and think that most people would jump on that bandwagon. I'm giving perspective that a big chunk of population have reasons to buy their own cars. It'll definitely boil down to price of the service. Would I drop convenience of having my own car for 80% car budget saving? Yep. 10%? Meh.. 50%? Maybe. The "substantial costs of car ownership" depend on car. If you want to have (almost) new car, then yes, that's expensive. But after the car is paid off (or you just buy used with cash), car ownership isn't that expensive. Car sharing seems cheap compared to new(ish) car only. It's worth to own new(ish) car if you drive a lot and/or car must be available immediately 24/7. But car sharing service won't cut it for you then. Or if car is more than a mean of transportation. Car sharing won't fit the bill either. Unless autonomous car sharing would be few times cheaper than current car sharing. Even including all the junk miles.
ryuker16 10y ago
Except the issue with traffic is commuting which occurs at roughly the same time. You don't have much problem with Saturday shopping traffic .
- CydeWeys 10y ago
  The idea that everyone needs to commute in a separate vehicle is an outdated notion whose time has past. It especially makes no sense with shared self-driving cars, which are more like small buses than privately owned passenger cars in function. The total number of vehicles on the road would end up drastically reduced.