5 ms·

i wasn't even aware vulkan obviated openCL...

wlesieutre 10y ago
I don't know a ton about the subject, but there's some coverage of it in this overview: https://www.khronos.org/assets/uploads/developers/library/overview/2015_vulkan_v1_Overview.pdf https://www.khronos.org/assets/uploads/developers/library/ov...
shmerl 10y ago
They overlap to some degree. Vulkan allows access to compute queues of the GPU (in addition to graphics ones).
- pjmlp 10y ago
  OpenGL already does that via compute shaders and it hasn't helped.
  - shmerl 10y ago
    Hasn't helped what exactly? OpenGL can't provide proper parallelized access to all the queues, so having compute shaders there isn't that useful.
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      To gain adoption. NVidia doesn't care about OpenCL. Google doesn't care, and pushes Renderscript instead. Apple doesn't care, it created OpenCL, but since Khronos doesn't dance their music, they rather push Metal Compute Shaders. Microsoft has C++AMP and DX Compute. Additionally CUDA was designed to be targeted by multiple languages, while OpenCL had to wait for OpenCL 2.0 for it to happen. Also the graphical debuggers for OpenCL could get some love. I know which GPU makers I will keep giving my money to.
      - shmerl 10y ago
        When crooked interests hinder adoption, you should blame the crooked interests, not the technology. Anyway, Vulkan provides lower level access to the compute functionality. And MS and Apple can get lost with their selfish NIH approach. The rest are supporting Vulkan, including all GPU makers.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        What rest? So far I have only seen Vulkan on GNU/Linux and Android 7.0+ deployments. And I am willing to bet it won't change, specially since most of us only care about middleware engines nowadays. Guess which API was being discussed at Unite 2016 LA? Hint: it wasn't Vulkan.
        shmerl 10y ago
        > What rest? Everyone. > And I am willing to bet it won't change MS and Apple will sleep until they'll realize, their NIH is threatened by competition. They don't play nice otherwise. But you expressed multiple times that you like lock-in, so I doubt you'll appreciate it.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        You keep forgetting Sony and Nintendo.
        glaze 10y ago
        I don't think the lock-in in the case of graphics APIs is too bad, because even for large codebases implementing a new graphics API support is often done by one or two persons.
        gcp 10y ago
        Guess which API was being discussed at Unite 2016 LA? OpenGL ES? (also with compute shaders in the latest version...)
        10y ago
rubber_duck 10y ago
SPIR-V is the intermediate language Vulkan uses for shaders, it's also the intermediate language of OpenCL - so if you implement SPIR-V for Vulkan you also get that for OpenCL - so now even if a company doesn't care about optimizing OpenCL it gets stuff from Vulkan for free

I don't know a ton about the subject, but there's some coverage of it in this overview: https://www.khronos.org/assets/uploads/developers/library/overview/2015_vulkan_v1_Overview.pdf https://www.khronos.org/assets/uploads/developers/library/ov...

shmerl 10y ago

They overlap to some degree. Vulkan allows access to compute queues of the GPU (in addition to graphics ones).

pjmlp 10y ago
OpenGL already does that via compute shaders and it hasn't helped.
- shmerl 10y ago
  Hasn't helped what exactly? OpenGL can't provide proper parallelized access to all the queues, so having compute shaders there isn't that useful.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    To gain adoption. NVidia doesn't care about OpenCL. Google doesn't care, and pushes Renderscript instead. Apple doesn't care, it created OpenCL, but since Khronos doesn't dance their music, they rather push Metal Compute Shaders. Microsoft has C++AMP and DX Compute. Additionally CUDA was designed to be targeted by multiple languages, while OpenCL had to wait for OpenCL 2.0 for it to happen. Also the graphical debuggers for OpenCL could get some love. I know which GPU makers I will keep giving my money to.
    - shmerl 10y ago
      When crooked interests hinder adoption, you should blame the crooked interests, not the technology. Anyway, Vulkan provides lower level access to the compute functionality. And MS and Apple can get lost with their selfish NIH approach. The rest are supporting Vulkan, including all GPU makers.
      - pjmlp 10y ago
        What rest? So far I have only seen Vulkan on GNU/Linux and Android 7.0+ deployments. And I am willing to bet it won't change, specially since most of us only care about middleware engines nowadays. Guess which API was being discussed at Unite 2016 LA? Hint: it wasn't Vulkan.
        shmerl 10y ago
        > What rest? Everyone. > And I am willing to bet it won't change MS and Apple will sleep until they'll realize, their NIH is threatened by competition. They don't play nice otherwise. But you expressed multiple times that you like lock-in, so I doubt you'll appreciate it.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        You keep forgetting Sony and Nintendo.
        glaze 10y ago
        I don't think the lock-in in the case of graphics APIs is too bad, because even for large codebases implementing a new graphics API support is often done by one or two persons.
        gcp 10y ago
        Guess which API was being discussed at Unite 2016 LA? OpenGL ES? (also with compute shaders in the latest version...)
        10y ago

rubber_duck 10y ago

SPIR-V is the intermediate language Vulkan uses for shaders, it's also the intermediate language of OpenCL - so if you implement SPIR-V for Vulkan you also get that for OpenCL - so now even if a company doesn't care about optimizing OpenCL it gets stuff from Vulkan for free