7 ms·

I come from a lower-middle-class family in Kolkata, and I can say from experience that a lot of older people (my parents!) are over the moon with the whole thin

by mrkgnao 10y ago

I come from a lower-middle-class family in Kolkata, and I can say from experience that a lot of older people (my parents!) are over the moon with the whole thing. My mother, in particular, has suddenly turned into some sort of Modi fangirl, saying stuff like, "See what he's doing for the country!" (and variations on that). At some level, it's just the fact that anyone who replaces years of (perceived?) inaction with something striking -- however naive, or well-intentioned-albeit-disastrous-in-the-long-run -- will elicit this kind of reaction. I imagine for people like my parents, the cost of going to a bank and getting all their suddenly-demonetised banknotes exchanged (which we anyway had very little of) isn't too much. And when some restaurant, say, or a drugstore, is unwilling to accept one of the new 2000-rupee notes, we have credit/debit cards to fall back on. The fact that that people may not have Aadhaar[1] cards or voter ID cards stored safely somewhere, that not everyone has bank accounts which hold >99% (excuse the arbitrary figure) of the money they have, that not everyone has the ability to spend what might possibly be the better part of a day walking to $DEITY knows where the nearest bank is (probably to be turned away because they're out of cash or because the line is a kilometre too long) -- that the very act of going to a bank may not be as trivial or no-brainer-like to everyone as it is to oneself! -- is something we have to work very hard to even imagine. And the cash they have stored is, in many cases, all they have. (Remember what I said about not having a bank account?) Cash, for us, is what we use for bags of chips and ice-cream and sheets of graph paper and ... bus fare, I guess? Cash, to someone living from day to day, is everything. edit: yay downvotes, I can tick that off my list [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aadhaar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aadhaar

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
ordinarySeeker 10y ago
There is atleast some indication that the Modi government took some steps in the prior years/months to strategically encircle the medium to big hoarders of black money and soothe the impact of the drastic demonetization step on the poor. Having said that any action of this magnitude is bound to have misplanning, unintended consequences and hardship 2013 Under previous government Replace subsidies with direct deposits in bank accounts of poor citizens[1] 2014 Under Modi Massive push to open bank accounts for poor people which seems to have bought banking to many households who never previously had one[2] 2015 Renegotiation of Tax treaties and Information sharing treating with tax heavens[3][4] Window for hoaders of black money to declare it for a flat penalty[5] 2016 Demonetization A more detailed step by step account http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/prime-minister-modi-surgical-strike-on-black-money-government-currency-revamp/1/805904.html http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/prime-minister-modi-surgi... [1] http://www.voanews.com/a/india-replaces-subsidies-for-the-poor-with-cash-transfers/1581898.html http://www.voanews.com/a/india-replaces-subsidies-for-the-po... [2] http://qz.com/257548/the-response-to-modi-governments-first-flagship-scheme-shows-it-couldnt-have-chosen-a-better-theme/ http://qz.com/257548/the-response-to-modi-governments-first-... [3]http://swarajyamag.com/economy/campaign-against-black-money-modi-govt-plugs-indo-mauritius-tax-treaty-loopholes http://swarajyamag.com/economy/campaign-against-black-money-... [4]http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=146245 http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=146245 [5] http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/10-things-to-know-about-blackmoney-bill/article7194290.ece http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/10-things-to-know-abou...
- kranner 10y ago
  The timing is suspicious though, ahead of state elections in the key states of UP, Punjab, Gujarat and Goa. For campaigns that are largely fought on cash, depriving other parties of cash is the biggest advantage. Better timing would have been to wait until adoption of the Government's own pan-Indian electronic payment scheme ('Unified Payment Interface'), including giving small vendors card reading devices.
  - sanmon3186 10y ago
    >The timing is suspicious though Well, there are elections every year [1] in India in some or the other key states. Not denying what you are saying but any timing would raise political eyebrows. IMO average citizens have no problem with politicians drumbeating things that has positive impact. [1] http://www.elections.in/upcoming-elections-in-india.html http://www.elections.in/upcoming-elections-in-india.html
  - asenna 10y ago
    There is always a major election coming up in India. By the time we're done with Gujarat (2018), there will be Rajasthan and a few others coming up. Not to mention the next Lok Sabha (Parliament) elections in 2019. Yes, the timing does mean that major political parties in UP would be hurt because their insane amount of hoarded cash is in trouble but really, is that a bad thing? As pointed out in comments above, this step does make sense given what the govt. has been trying to do to fight black money in the past 2 years. In fact Modi keeps mentioning that this is not the last of the steps and there will be more measures coming into affect soon. Keeping the hoarders scared was really needed here. If you're on the ground in India, you can tell people are thinking twice before selling their properties for cash (it's very common for people to sell for 70/30 or so ratio for white and black money) / other hoarding activities.
    - kranner 10y ago
      The bad or unfair thing is if the BJP is hurt less than its competitors, which is possible if they have more of the newly valid currency to spend. Whether they accumulated this before or after the announcement is irrelevant; but there is now a scarcity which can be manipulated.
puranjay 10y ago
Even as a self-confessed critic of Modi, I have to admit that these hiccups are only temporary. What's more disturbing to me is the rumors I've heard from some wealthy friends' parents that they've already found loopholes to launder money through charitable trusts
- kamaal 10y ago
  >>What's more disturbing to me is the rumors I've heard from some wealthy friends' parents that they've already found loopholes to launder money through charitable trusts This has existed forever. Cleaning up is not easy as most religions run their worship places under these trusts. Politically very hard to deal with this situation.
personinsg 10y ago
BBC is right in its analysis, this measure only targets 20% of Indian wealth. The richest 5% owning 80% of Indian wealth are at ease, only poor and middle class troubled. Moreover this 20% money will be available to them as cheap loans. The total money owed by big corporates in India is way bigger then this parallel black money. Also the person Rajan who was planning to reign this loans is forced out of office. Modi is Indian version of Donald trump building Great Wall across India against corruption in media. A normal Indian will never know that black money outside of India far outweigh anything in Indian homes.
- ireadfaces 10y ago
  Demonetization is not a magical wand that will remove all the black money overnight. Now people who says it only for red middle and lower classes, know that it affected mostly people with black money in cash. Cash hoarders, Hawala money, counterfeit money and cash involved in rigging elections, help terrorism and many such illicit activities. Yes, middle class people will have to bear the pain of changing their currency but look at what it is bringing to you. And yes, it is first step, time will come and other sources of Black money will also be taken care of, matter of time, wait and watch. Even writing one such long comment takes time, let alone removing corrupt money fro a nation of 1.2 Billion where people love to ease taxes.
  - personinsg 10y ago
    It's being advertised as magic wand by the govt asking common man to endure 50 days of not necessary hardships. This measure only helps govt, it won't have any significant dent on real 80% wealth hoarders who are going to get access to hard earned money through banks and if govt gets more tax then in the form of contracts awarded to them. The proof is already there in the form adani and reliance group gettting major contracts. This is a move to snatch money from common man and hand it over to rich class is a master stroke.

by mrkgnao 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

ordinarySeeker 10y ago

There is atleast some indication that the Modi government took some steps in the prior years/months to strategically encircle the medium to big hoarders of black money and soothe the impact of the drastic demonetization step on the poor. Having said that any action of this magnitude is bound to have misplanning, unintended consequences and hardship 2013 Under previous government Replace subsidies with direct deposits in bank accounts of poor citizens[1] 2014 Under Modi Massive push to open bank accounts for poor people which seems to have bought banking to many households who never previously had one[2] 2015 Renegotiation of Tax treaties and Information sharing treating with tax heavens[3][4] Window for hoaders of black money to declare it for a flat penalty[5] 2016 Demonetization A more detailed step by step account http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/prime-minister-modi-surgical-strike-on-black-money-government-currency-revamp/1/805904.html http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/prime-minister-modi-surgi... [1] http://www.voanews.com/a/india-replaces-subsidies-for-the-poor-with-cash-transfers/1581898.html http://www.voanews.com/a/india-replaces-subsidies-for-the-po... [2] http://qz.com/257548/the-response-to-modi-governments-first-flagship-scheme-shows-it-couldnt-have-chosen-a-better-theme/ http://qz.com/257548/the-response-to-modi-governments-first-... [3]http://swarajyamag.com/economy/campaign-against-black-money-modi-govt-plugs-indo-mauritius-tax-treaty-loopholes http://swarajyamag.com/economy/campaign-against-black-money-... [4]http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=146245 http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=146245 [5] http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/10-things-to-know-about-blackmoney-bill/article7194290.ece http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/10-things-to-know-abou...

kranner 10y ago
The timing is suspicious though, ahead of state elections in the key states of UP, Punjab, Gujarat and Goa. For campaigns that are largely fought on cash, depriving other parties of cash is the biggest advantage. Better timing would have been to wait until adoption of the Government's own pan-Indian electronic payment scheme ('Unified Payment Interface'), including giving small vendors card reading devices.
- sanmon3186 10y ago
  >The timing is suspicious though Well, there are elections every year [1] in India in some or the other key states. Not denying what you are saying but any timing would raise political eyebrows. IMO average citizens have no problem with politicians drumbeating things that has positive impact. [1] http://www.elections.in/upcoming-elections-in-india.html http://www.elections.in/upcoming-elections-in-india.html
- asenna 10y ago
  There is always a major election coming up in India. By the time we're done with Gujarat (2018), there will be Rajasthan and a few others coming up. Not to mention the next Lok Sabha (Parliament) elections in 2019. Yes, the timing does mean that major political parties in UP would be hurt because their insane amount of hoarded cash is in trouble but really, is that a bad thing? As pointed out in comments above, this step does make sense given what the govt. has been trying to do to fight black money in the past 2 years. In fact Modi keeps mentioning that this is not the last of the steps and there will be more measures coming into affect soon. Keeping the hoarders scared was really needed here. If you're on the ground in India, you can tell people are thinking twice before selling their properties for cash (it's very common for people to sell for 70/30 or so ratio for white and black money) / other hoarding activities.
  - kranner 10y ago
    The bad or unfair thing is if the BJP is hurt less than its competitors, which is possible if they have more of the newly valid currency to spend. Whether they accumulated this before or after the announcement is irrelevant; but there is now a scarcity which can be manipulated.

puranjay 10y ago

Even as a self-confessed critic of Modi, I have to admit that these hiccups are only temporary. What's more disturbing to me is the rumors I've heard from some wealthy friends' parents that they've already found loopholes to launder money through charitable trusts

kamaal 10y ago
>>What's more disturbing to me is the rumors I've heard from some wealthy friends' parents that they've already found loopholes to launder money through charitable trusts This has existed forever. Cleaning up is not easy as most religions run their worship places under these trusts. Politically very hard to deal with this situation.

personinsg 10y ago

BBC is right in its analysis, this measure only targets 20% of Indian wealth. The richest 5% owning 80% of Indian wealth are at ease, only poor and middle class troubled. Moreover this 20% money will be available to them as cheap loans. The total money owed by big corporates in India is way bigger then this parallel black money. Also the person Rajan who was planning to reign this loans is forced out of office. Modi is Indian version of Donald trump building Great Wall across India against corruption in media. A normal Indian will never know that black money outside of India far outweigh anything in Indian homes.

ireadfaces 10y ago
Demonetization is not a magical wand that will remove all the black money overnight. Now people who says it only for red middle and lower classes, know that it affected mostly people with black money in cash. Cash hoarders, Hawala money, counterfeit money and cash involved in rigging elections, help terrorism and many such illicit activities. Yes, middle class people will have to bear the pain of changing their currency but look at what it is bringing to you. And yes, it is first step, time will come and other sources of Black money will also be taken care of, matter of time, wait and watch. Even writing one such long comment takes time, let alone removing corrupt money fro a nation of 1.2 Billion where people love to ease taxes.
- personinsg 10y ago
  It's being advertised as magic wand by the govt asking common man to endure 50 days of not necessary hardships. This measure only helps govt, it won't have any significant dent on real 80% wealth hoarders who are going to get access to hard earned money through banks and if govt gets more tax then in the form of contracts awarded to them. The proof is already there in the form adani and reliance group gettting major contracts. This is a move to snatch money from common man and hand it over to rich class is a master stroke.