4 ms·

I wonder why there are no private non-profit prisons. There are many states that allow private prisons. There have been multiple articles about how awful thes

I wonder why there are no private non-profit prisons. There are many states that allow private prisons. There have been multiple articles about how awful these prisons are. Why not try to open a non-profit prison where gov't funds are supplemented with donations and focusing on rehabilitation and humane living conditions. Then we both improve the lives of some inmates, and can more effectively compare outcomes.

nickpsecurity 10y ago
Best idea I've seen on the thread. There's corruption to overcome but the non-profit could similarly bribe the politicians. It's worth someone trying.
danieltillett 10y ago
Because the amount available per prisioner per day is so low that a non-profit prison could not do much better. It is not like the for-profit prisions are running on profit margins of 50%.
- steveax 10y ago
  ~12.5% margin for CCA in 2015 [1]. I suspect that $227M could manage to pay for bringing some fresh produce into the commissary. Edit: not to mention the $890K they spent on lobbying. [1]: http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/IROL/11/117983/2015%20Annual%20Letter%20to%20Shareholders%20-%20Final.pdf http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/IROL/11/117983/201...
  - danieltillett 10y ago
    This is not a great margin given the capital requirements and political risks. It would be hard for a new non-profit to get to their efficiency without scale and even if you did it would not free up anywhere near the resources required to make major changes in prisoner treatment. The basic problem is still the tiny amount spent per prisoner on anything other than keeping them locked up. We need to spend more if we want them to not just be heading straight back to jail.
- verbify 10y ago
  That's not the point. The margins could be low. But it would still have two effects: * Prisoners would be treated better * Whatever small profits could be pumped into rehabilitation Currently for-profit prisons have perverse incentives, like claiming prisoners have behaved badly and therefore extending their sentences.
  - danieltillett 10y ago
    The problem is the perverse incentives, not who manages the prisons. Non-profit prisons can be just as badly run as for profit prisons. We need to change what we pay for - no more paying for each prisoner locked up, lets pay for each prisoner that avoids reoffending. We want people that come out of prison to not go around committing more crimes. For profit might help here in that they may try innovative approaches that achieve this aim - we just have to give them the right incentives.
- fny 10y ago
  Since when was a non profit supposed to make a profit?! Who cares how low the margins are fit as long as it's sustainable.
  - danieltillett 10y ago
    Because the aim is to free up money to spend on rehabilitating the prisoners. If there is not enough money being made in profit then converting to a non-profit structure would not help much. Having said this I actually think a for profit model with the right incentives might be the best way to go. The current incentive structure for private prisons basically encourages a revolving door since they are paid per prisoner per day. What we need is smarter incentives that encourage prisons to help ex-prisioners to not reoffend. The problem is not the small share of spend going towards private profits, by a system that encourages the prisons to always be full.

nickpsecurity 10y ago

Best idea I've seen on the thread. There's corruption to overcome but the non-profit could similarly bribe the politicians. It's worth someone trying.

danieltillett 10y ago

Because the amount available per prisioner per day is so low that a non-profit prison could not do much better. It is not like the for-profit prisions are running on profit margins of 50%.

steveax 10y ago
~12.5% margin for CCA in 2015 [1]. I suspect that $227M could manage to pay for bringing some fresh produce into the commissary. Edit: not to mention the $890K they spent on lobbying. [1]: http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/IROL/11/117983/2015%20Annual%20Letter%20to%20Shareholders%20-%20Final.pdf http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/IROL/11/117983/201...
- danieltillett 10y ago
  This is not a great margin given the capital requirements and political risks. It would be hard for a new non-profit to get to their efficiency without scale and even if you did it would not free up anywhere near the resources required to make major changes in prisoner treatment. The basic problem is still the tiny amount spent per prisoner on anything other than keeping them locked up. We need to spend more if we want them to not just be heading straight back to jail.
verbify 10y ago
That's not the point. The margins could be low. But it would still have two effects: * Prisoners would be treated better * Whatever small profits could be pumped into rehabilitation Currently for-profit prisons have perverse incentives, like claiming prisoners have behaved badly and therefore extending their sentences.
- danieltillett 10y ago
  The problem is the perverse incentives, not who manages the prisons. Non-profit prisons can be just as badly run as for profit prisons. We need to change what we pay for - no more paying for each prisoner locked up, lets pay for each prisoner that avoids reoffending. We want people that come out of prison to not go around committing more crimes. For profit might help here in that they may try innovative approaches that achieve this aim - we just have to give them the right incentives.
fny 10y ago
Since when was a non profit supposed to make a profit?! Who cares how low the margins are fit as long as it's sustainable.
- danieltillett 10y ago
  Because the aim is to free up money to spend on rehabilitating the prisoners. If there is not enough money being made in profit then converting to a non-profit structure would not help much. Having said this I actually think a for profit model with the right incentives might be the best way to go. The current incentive structure for private prisons basically encourages a revolving door since they are paid per prisoner per day. What we need is smarter incentives that encourage prisons to help ex-prisioners to not reoffend. The problem is not the small share of spend going towards private profits, by a system that encourages the prisons to always be full.