5 ms·

This is terrible advice. I grew up with guns on the wall. My dad grew up on a farm, spent 26.5 years in the military, was awarded a purple heart. I grew up with

by Mz 10y ago

This is terrible advice. I grew up with guns on the wall. My dad grew up on a farm, spent 26.5 years in the military, was awarded a purple heart. I grew up with gun culture and eating food dad killed himself. If you are not actually going to become a hunter and seriously learn to shoot and become part of gun culture, don't go buy a gun "in case you need it, some day." That's utter insanity. It will just result in you helping to arm other people (that you don't want to arm, that will not be your protectors) and upping the stakes in the process. I was a fine shot in my youth. I would be perfectly comfortable being around guns for the right reason, under the right circumstances. This is not it. Instead of preparing yourself for some Mad Max bullshit scenario where you imagine you will play hero, having never done it before in your life, just work on continuing to improve supply chain, emergency response and so forth -- in other words, keep building a more reliable and more civilized civilization. That is your best bet right there. If you actually are a part of gun culture and know what the fuck you are doing, I am not talking about you. So don't give me shit for telling ninnies to not do this. Thanks.

swozey 10y ago
This is absolutely hilarious. If you're not a professional hunter don't buy a gun, but instead fix the wrongs of society. Well, I hope the person who follows your advice doesn't have an emergency situation in the next, oh, thousand years, because our current trajectory to a Star Trek utopia is lagging.
up_so_floating 10y ago
Can you clarify as to why owning a gun, as both a casual hobby and means of defense for unlikely scenarios, is "utter insanity"? And why do you believe gun owners view themselves as "prepping [...] for some Mad Max bullshit scenario"? Otherwise, using such language strongly discredits your already weak argument.
- ux-app 10y ago
  > Can you clarify as to why owning a gun, as both a casual hobby and means of defense for unlikely scenarios, is "utter insanity"? not the op, but the way I read it is that unless you are heavily invested in gun culture, meaning that you have appropriate training and you shoot regularly to maintain skill, then owning a gun makes you and your loved ones less safe. My understanding is that research shows that gun owners and their families are far, far more likely to be injured or killed by said firearm (accidentally, or intentionally) than they are to ever actually have the opportunity to use the gun for defence. In that context the original statement makes sense.
  - up_so_floating 10y ago
    Sure, that is a fair interpretation. Given such an interpretation, I find it is more sensible to label such a person "misinformed", not suffering from "utter insanity". The latter phrase immediately shuts down, at least for me, any productive discourse.
    - Mz 10y ago
      You aren't looking for productive discourse. You are promoting a very dangerous idea and pulling a single phrase completely out of context as a cheap excuse to be dismissive. I also used to pay accident claims. I have paid claims for dumbasses whose lack of gun safety practices maimed a child for life. I also denied one where his carelessness was so beyond the pale it was not covered. I don't feel any need to "respect" your supposed right to promote this terrible idea. If you want to prepare to be Mad Max, take up archery. A bow requires real skill. You won't be empowering some random jackass to kill you with your own weapon.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
  - masonic 10y ago
    "research shows that gun owners and their families are far, far more likely to be injured or killed by said firearm" I take it that you've never read such research yourself; that's a gross misinterpretation (the "said firearm" qualifier is outright false).
    - ux-app 10y ago
      I'm neither for nor against gun ownership, but I am against blatant misrepresentation of the facts. The facts are: - 1 : home invasion is incredibly rare - 2 : injury and death by firearm, intentional or otherwise is incredibly high in the USA. Professor Harold Pollack, who (among other things) co-directs the University of Chicago's Crime Lab: [1] "...the everyday risks of injury, accident, domestic altercations, and suicide. The relative risks matter. And the fact is: lethal home invasions and burglaries are incredibly rare. You might not think so, since dramatic cases stick in your mind and tend to receive disproportionate press coverage. These cases are rare nonetheless." "I had the Chicago police run the number on homicides. In 2011, precisely one homicide listed "burglary" as the motive. Nationwide, there are about 100 burglary-homicides every year. When you compare that to more than 18,000 gun suicides, the conclusions seem pretty obvious." Enjoy your guns all you like, but be honest, they are a dangerous hobby and the statistical likelihood of you or a family member being harmed or killed by a gun the family owns is far higher than the chance that - you will ever be the victim of a home invasion - you will get the chance for a high noon shoot out with a "bad guy" This is a well-cited article: http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/ http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/ [1] - http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/12/gun-violence-and-the-irrational-fear-of-home-invasion/266613/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/12/gun-viol... [2] - http://www.ibtimes.com/accidental-gun-deaths-involving-children-are-major-problem-us-2250568 http://www.ibtimes.com/accidental-gun-deaths-involving-child...
adiabatty 10y ago
> Instead of preparing yourself for some Mad Max bullshit scenario where you imagine you will play hero, having never done it before in your life, just work on continuing to improve supply chain, emergency response and so forth -- in other words, keep building a more reliable and more civilized civilization. That is your best bet right there. I agree with this in part. Firearms proficiency is a skill that you need to acquire and maintain if you want to be able to use a gun to defend yourself and your family without accidentally shooting them. This is a skill you can acquire with classes, but merely having the pistol/shotgun won't make you safer automatically.
- up_so_floating 10y ago
  Absolutely. Some people could legitimately view it as not worth the time investment.
- Mz 10y ago
  Thank you for being the first reply that didn't wildly twist out of shape what I actually said.
slr555 10y ago
Well said. Owning a firearm is a serious commitment and responsibility. You describe well the dedication it takes for a gun to be a useful tool and not just a hazard in the home. Choosing the right weapon for your needs is not just a trip to Cabela's and I'll take the shiny one. I like what you say about supply chain. Even if as a novice you manage to kill an animal for food, do you have any idea how to process it for safe consumption. There are less resource and skill intensive ways of hunting (trapping, snaring) that can be successful. When someone says, "should I buy this gun?", it's a bit like when someone says, "should I buy this computer?" Well, it all depends what you're trying to do. Long story short. Great post.
- Mz 10y ago
  A cousin won a live turkey one thanksgiving. Dad killed it. Mom prepped it for freezing. Most Americans would not have known how at that time and these days many people no longer really cook. They microwave everything.

by Mz 10y ago

swozey 10y ago

This is absolutely hilarious. If you're not a professional hunter don't buy a gun, but instead fix the wrongs of society. Well, I hope the person who follows your advice doesn't have an emergency situation in the next, oh, thousand years, because our current trajectory to a Star Trek utopia is lagging.

up_so_floating 10y ago

Can you clarify as to why owning a gun, as both a casual hobby and means of defense for unlikely scenarios, is "utter insanity"? And why do you believe gun owners view themselves as "prepping [...] for some Mad Max bullshit scenario"? Otherwise, using such language strongly discredits your already weak argument.

ux-app 10y ago
> Can you clarify as to why owning a gun, as both a casual hobby and means of defense for unlikely scenarios, is "utter insanity"? not the op, but the way I read it is that unless you are heavily invested in gun culture, meaning that you have appropriate training and you shoot regularly to maintain skill, then owning a gun makes you and your loved ones less safe. My understanding is that research shows that gun owners and their families are far, far more likely to be injured or killed by said firearm (accidentally, or intentionally) than they are to ever actually have the opportunity to use the gun for defence. In that context the original statement makes sense.
- up_so_floating 10y ago
  Sure, that is a fair interpretation. Given such an interpretation, I find it is more sensible to label such a person "misinformed", not suffering from "utter insanity". The latter phrase immediately shuts down, at least for me, any productive discourse.
  - Mz 10y ago
    You aren't looking for productive discourse. You are promoting a very dangerous idea and pulling a single phrase completely out of context as a cheap excuse to be dismissive. I also used to pay accident claims. I have paid claims for dumbasses whose lack of gun safety practices maimed a child for life. I also denied one where his carelessness was so beyond the pale it was not covered. I don't feel any need to "respect" your supposed right to promote this terrible idea. If you want to prepare to be Mad Max, take up archery. A bow requires real skill. You won't be empowering some random jackass to kill you with your own weapon.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- masonic 10y ago
  "research shows that gun owners and their families are far, far more likely to be injured or killed by said firearm" I take it that you've never read such research yourself; that's a gross misinterpretation (the "said firearm" qualifier is outright false).
  - ux-app 10y ago
    I'm neither for nor against gun ownership, but I am against blatant misrepresentation of the facts. The facts are: - 1 : home invasion is incredibly rare - 2 : injury and death by firearm, intentional or otherwise is incredibly high in the USA. Professor Harold Pollack, who (among other things) co-directs the University of Chicago's Crime Lab: [1] "...the everyday risks of injury, accident, domestic altercations, and suicide. The relative risks matter. And the fact is: lethal home invasions and burglaries are incredibly rare. You might not think so, since dramatic cases stick in your mind and tend to receive disproportionate press coverage. These cases are rare nonetheless." "I had the Chicago police run the number on homicides. In 2011, precisely one homicide listed "burglary" as the motive. Nationwide, there are about 100 burglary-homicides every year. When you compare that to more than 18,000 gun suicides, the conclusions seem pretty obvious." Enjoy your guns all you like, but be honest, they are a dangerous hobby and the statistical likelihood of you or a family member being harmed or killed by a gun the family owns is far higher than the chance that - you will ever be the victim of a home invasion - you will get the chance for a high noon shoot out with a "bad guy" This is a well-cited article: http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/ http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/ [1] - http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/12/gun-violence-and-the-irrational-fear-of-home-invasion/266613/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/12/gun-viol... [2] - http://www.ibtimes.com/accidental-gun-deaths-involving-children-are-major-problem-us-2250568 http://www.ibtimes.com/accidental-gun-deaths-involving-child...

adiabatty 10y ago

> Instead of preparing yourself for some Mad Max bullshit scenario where you imagine you will play hero, having never done it before in your life, just work on continuing to improve supply chain, emergency response and so forth -- in other words, keep building a more reliable and more civilized civilization. That is your best bet right there. I agree with this in part. Firearms proficiency is a skill that you need to acquire and maintain if you want to be able to use a gun to defend yourself and your family without accidentally shooting them. This is a skill you can acquire with classes, but merely having the pistol/shotgun won't make you safer automatically.

up_so_floating 10y ago
Absolutely. Some people could legitimately view it as not worth the time investment.
Mz 10y ago
Thank you for being the first reply that didn't wildly twist out of shape what I actually said.

slr555 10y ago

Well said. Owning a firearm is a serious commitment and responsibility. You describe well the dedication it takes for a gun to be a useful tool and not just a hazard in the home. Choosing the right weapon for your needs is not just a trip to Cabela's and I'll take the shiny one. I like what you say about supply chain. Even if as a novice you manage to kill an animal for food, do you have any idea how to process it for safe consumption. There are less resource and skill intensive ways of hunting (trapping, snaring) that can be successful. When someone says, "should I buy this gun?", it's a bit like when someone says, "should I buy this computer?" Well, it all depends what you're trying to do. Long story short. Great post.

Mz 10y ago
A cousin won a live turkey one thanksgiving. Dad killed it. Mom prepped it for freezing. Most Americans would not have known how at that time and these days many people no longer really cook. They microwave everything.