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Your chances of being maimed in that cardboard box even in a minor city crash are high, it literally is a deathtrap. You literally seem to have no idea how any

Your chances of being maimed in that cardboard box even in a minor city crash are high, it literally is a deathtrap. You literally seem to have no idea how any of this works Those cars are constantly broken. They leak everything everywhere. Serviceability by amateurs goes directly against low emissions. You can't make a clean, 4-stroke engine without high fuel pressure. Modern engines require unimaginable tolerances. Recycled material is almost always more expensive than non-recycled one, why do you think recycling needs to be forced by law? Eastern Germany had shortages of materials so they literally used anything they could. Do you really think it was inert and harmless? For e.g. soviet bloc used heavily carcinogenic cleaning agent in preschools, hospitals etc. Sure, you can drop bells and whistles like electric windshields, infotaiment and the like.

maxerickson 10y ago
My local recycling center doesn't accept glass (because it isn't worth anything). There's a couple of places in town that will buy metal. Or is scrap metal somehow not recycling?
jlg23 10y ago
I'm not sure whether you are trolling so this is my last attempt at having a meaningful conversation with you: > Your chances of being maimed in that cardboard box even in a minor city crash are high, it literally is a deathtrap. I would still argue, when on a bicycle, your survival chances when crashing into a bicycle are higher than when crashing into a car. Same goes for Trabant vs Trabant. Do you have some concrete evidence that Trabant does worse here (i.e. design issues that prevented people from getting out or that turn some parts into lethal weapons when involved in a "minor city crash")? > Those cars are constantly broken. They leak everything everywhere. At least not my family's Trabant or those of our friends. Do you have any actual numbers on failure rates? > Serviceability by amateurs goes directly against low emissions. You can't make a clean, 4-stroke engine without high fuel pressure. Modern engines require unimaginable tolerances. That is a very bold statement only backed by a comparison that does not even apply (a modern 4-stroke engine design vs the used 2-stroke engine). But since 2-stroke engines benefit greatly from direct injection I'll let that pass and just notice that I was not talking about the engine specifically but the overall design and that I even pointed out that the engine they used was "antiquated". > Recycled material is almost always more expensive than non-recycled one Do you have any numbers to back that up? And here I'd like to have a breakdown to see where the costs are coming from. In a planned economy it is much easier and cheaper to source recycled or scrapped material (i.e: You know you need 10ton of cotton wool to make X goods in a factory and you also know that you have to scrap 0.5tons. Therefore you just plan on having 0.5tons for further use and collect that with a truck once a month.) > Eastern Germany had shortages of materials so they literally used anything they could. Do you really think it was inert and harmless? For e.g. soviet bloc used heavily carcinogenic cleaning agent in preschools, hospitals etc. You won. I'm completely traumatized by ~"carcinogens in preschools and hospitals". Well, maybe not, because that was not the topic at all (but I can give you many more great examples of what was utterly wrong if you need them for further "arguments" - after all, I grew up there). I don't care why we use resources as efficient as possible as long as we do it. Now people carry proper fabric shopping bags "because of the environment1!!!1!". Before there was this joke in Western Germany: "How do you spot someone from Eastern Germany? He is carrying a fabric shopping bag!". > why do you think recycling needs to be forced by law? Because the elected representatives think that the majority wants to protect the environment. Or in other words: Because we have arrived at a point where people think it is important to use resources as efficiently as possible. I don't see the importance of why people want to save resources as long as they do it.
- emp_zealoth 10y ago
  Wait, so now I have to write a research paper on 5 topics? You said "it is ecological at heart concept" 1)can't be ecological with 2 stroke engine, EVER You said "it is great to be serviceable by amateurs" 2) From 1) follows lack of "fixable with whatever". You need high fuel pressure for good atomization and efficient burn, you need precise tolerances, you need high-grade materials for the engine to not burn fuel like crazy and not produce all kinds of nasty shit. One could go on for hours Wikipedia claims: The engine produced very smoky exhaust and significant air pollution – nine times the hydrocarbons and five times the carbon monoxide emissions of the average European car of 2007. Great ecology. Another point of gravity fuel feed: guess where the tank is - directly above an aircooled engine. Top marks for safety On the topic of safety: Yes, being hit by a modern car might actually be safer on a bike than in that thing. Sure as fuck I'd personally prefer that if it was compared to motorbike + clothes. You might burn. The steering column might impale you. The steering wheel might take your head off. That thing literally folds on itself. It isn't speed that kills you but being crushed into a funny looking ball The carcirogenic part was just highlight one problem. They used waste from dye production. Do you think anyone even bothered to check how toxic it is? Do you really think that waste from a soviet plant is harmless? They used it because they had no other materials available. That sweet eco-touchy-feely recycled duroplast? Turns out you can't really dispose of it. (They ground it up and mixed it as aggregate in cement for pavement construction) About recycling: I meant it has to be required because it usually isn't worth it (especially for normal people, not buisnesses that happen to have it by the tonne) http://www.businessinsider.com/low-oil-prices-hurt-plastics-recycling-2016-4?IR=T http://www.businessinsider.com/low-oil-prices-hurt-plastics-... Sure, I can use fabric shopping bags. Just to buy trash bags instead, but whatever makes you feel nice. Most of the time the supermarkets make me use a gazyllion shitty plastic bags for every single loose thing (self-weighting) anyway.
namlem 10y ago
Back then all cars were death traps. I'm not sure how much less likely it would have been to be maimed in a low speed crash in an American car.

maxerickson 10y ago

My local recycling center doesn't accept glass (because it isn't worth anything). There's a couple of places in town that will buy metal. Or is scrap metal somehow not recycling?

jlg23 10y ago

I'm not sure whether you are trolling so this is my last attempt at having a meaningful conversation with you: > Your chances of being maimed in that cardboard box even in a minor city crash are high, it literally is a deathtrap. I would still argue, when on a bicycle, your survival chances when crashing into a bicycle are higher than when crashing into a car. Same goes for Trabant vs Trabant. Do you have some concrete evidence that Trabant does worse here (i.e. design issues that prevented people from getting out or that turn some parts into lethal weapons when involved in a "minor city crash")? > Those cars are constantly broken. They leak everything everywhere. At least not my family's Trabant or those of our friends. Do you have any actual numbers on failure rates? > Serviceability by amateurs goes directly against low emissions. You can't make a clean, 4-stroke engine without high fuel pressure. Modern engines require unimaginable tolerances. That is a very bold statement only backed by a comparison that does not even apply (a modern 4-stroke engine design vs the used 2-stroke engine). But since 2-stroke engines benefit greatly from direct injection I'll let that pass and just notice that I was not talking about the engine specifically but the overall design and that I even pointed out that the engine they used was "antiquated". > Recycled material is almost always more expensive than non-recycled one Do you have any numbers to back that up? And here I'd like to have a breakdown to see where the costs are coming from. In a planned economy it is much easier and cheaper to source recycled or scrapped material (i.e: You know you need 10ton of cotton wool to make X goods in a factory and you also know that you have to scrap 0.5tons. Therefore you just plan on having 0.5tons for further use and collect that with a truck once a month.) > Eastern Germany had shortages of materials so they literally used anything they could. Do you really think it was inert and harmless? For e.g. soviet bloc used heavily carcinogenic cleaning agent in preschools, hospitals etc. You won. I'm completely traumatized by ~"carcinogens in preschools and hospitals". Well, maybe not, because that was not the topic at all (but I can give you many more great examples of what was utterly wrong if you need them for further "arguments" - after all, I grew up there). I don't care why we use resources as efficient as possible as long as we do it. Now people carry proper fabric shopping bags "because of the environment1!!!1!". Before there was this joke in Western Germany: "How do you spot someone from Eastern Germany? He is carrying a fabric shopping bag!". > why do you think recycling needs to be forced by law? Because the elected representatives think that the majority wants to protect the environment. Or in other words: Because we have arrived at a point where people think it is important to use resources as efficiently as possible. I don't see the importance of why people want to save resources as long as they do it.

emp_zealoth 10y ago
Wait, so now I have to write a research paper on 5 topics? You said "it is ecological at heart concept" 1)can't be ecological with 2 stroke engine, EVER You said "it is great to be serviceable by amateurs" 2) From 1) follows lack of "fixable with whatever". You need high fuel pressure for good atomization and efficient burn, you need precise tolerances, you need high-grade materials for the engine to not burn fuel like crazy and not produce all kinds of nasty shit. One could go on for hours Wikipedia claims: The engine produced very smoky exhaust and significant air pollution – nine times the hydrocarbons and five times the carbon monoxide emissions of the average European car of 2007. Great ecology. Another point of gravity fuel feed: guess where the tank is - directly above an aircooled engine. Top marks for safety On the topic of safety: Yes, being hit by a modern car might actually be safer on a bike than in that thing. Sure as fuck I'd personally prefer that if it was compared to motorbike + clothes. You might burn. The steering column might impale you. The steering wheel might take your head off. That thing literally folds on itself. It isn't speed that kills you but being crushed into a funny looking ball The carcirogenic part was just highlight one problem. They used waste from dye production. Do you think anyone even bothered to check how toxic it is? Do you really think that waste from a soviet plant is harmless? They used it because they had no other materials available. That sweet eco-touchy-feely recycled duroplast? Turns out you can't really dispose of it. (They ground it up and mixed it as aggregate in cement for pavement construction) About recycling: I meant it has to be required because it usually isn't worth it (especially for normal people, not buisnesses that happen to have it by the tonne) http://www.businessinsider.com/low-oil-prices-hurt-plastics-recycling-2016-4?IR=T http://www.businessinsider.com/low-oil-prices-hurt-plastics-... Sure, I can use fabric shopping bags. Just to buy trash bags instead, but whatever makes you feel nice. Most of the time the supermarkets make me use a gazyllion shitty plastic bags for every single loose thing (self-weighting) anyway.

namlem 10y ago

Back then all cars were death traps. I'm not sure how much less likely it would have been to be maimed in a low speed crash in an American car.