7 ms·

Martin Luther King on “Guaranteed Income” (1967)

61 points by AvenueIngres 10y ago

ftrflyr 10y ago
Take a look at Milton Friedman's thoughts as well. I believe MLK's stance was largely influenced from what he knew about Negative Income Tax. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM
- nathcd 10y ago
  I'm surprised I don't see negative income tax brought up in more basic income discussions. A NIT with a flat tax[1] has always seemed to me to be a really pragmatic way to implement a basic income. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax#Flat_tax_with_negative_income_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax#Flat_tax_w...
  - cpleppert 10y ago
    A negative income tax has the same issues as a basic income. It isn't remotely affordable based on the current tax rates without large cuts to social spending and/or eliminating it entirely.
utnick 10y ago
It seems like it would be easier through technology to just reduce the minimum cost of living so much, that whatever basic income needed would be extremely small or even nothing at all. I'm reading the Wright Brothers Bio right now and what struck me is how they came from a really poor family ( dad was a travelling preacher ), and they owned a small bicycle shop in a small town, yet they had no trouble owning a big house, and could afford to leave the shop for several years in their 20s to go across the country to do flying experiments. That would be unthinkable today due to rent & food & healthcare costs.
- m12k 10y ago
  That's probably the endgame that 3D printing is pointing toward - being able to create anything you need on your own with a minimum of input needed (raw materials) so we're all self sufficient. The problem is the transition phase, where these automated production facilities are only benefitting the current owners of the factories, but have not yet become cheap or miniaturized enough to really benefit everyone (will we see a Personal Factory revolution like that of Personal Computers?). Capitalism works because the owners of the factories still need workers to run the machinery and buy the produced goods. Replace them with robots and you lose the market to sell the goods to too and the whole thing breaks down - the next 50 years are going to be a very interesting time to be alive.
  - positr0n 10y ago
    > That would be unthinkable today due to rent & food & healthcare costs. 3D printing won't help with any of those.
    - wu-ikkyu 10y ago
      Food, housing inputs, and health care devices could all be printed.
      - GunboatDiplomat 10y ago
        Going out on a limb, printed food would still need foodstock inputs of some type, and housing still needs land.
- jb613 10y ago
  That's ridiculous. The Wright Brothers changed the world. On par if not exceeding today's equivalent of Marc Andreesen (Netscape), Bill Gates (Microsoft), Brin&Page (Google) - and the last time I checked, people like that DO own big house(s) and CAN afford to travel and do experiments without any worries about rent, food, healthcare. By today's standards, many people were "poor" back then - it's all relative. Maybe in 100+ years they'll look back and marvel at how "poor" Andreesen/Gates/etc... were too. You can be poor today and still make it big. You don't need a college degree or the massive debt that entails, you can make up for that with a good idea + hard work + persistence + live as frugal as possible + a little luck. It's not exactly the same - some things are harder and some things are easier, but overall it's still doable.
llsf 10y ago
I just watched the video, and a "Join NRA" Google ad appeared on the screen. Really, Google ?!? Placing a "Join NRA" ad on a MLK Youtube video... Either it is an awful coincidence or someone thinks it is okay to do this now.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- grzm 10y ago
  I think you may be reading too much into it. What mechanisms are behind ad placement? I haven't done any online marketing so I'm not familiar with how advertising on YouTube works. So here's some speculation, none of which is meant to imply that I'm trying to assume what you're thinking. There's too little in your comment for me to do that :) If there's no ad targeting, it'd just be coincidence, right? If there's some sort of ad targeting based on some demographic data, what does that say? It may just mean that you happen to match some criteria, like you happen to live in a certain location. How about if the advertiser is targeting certain videos or types of videos? Should that be allowed? Disallowed? Allowed only in some circumstances? Maybe just not this advertiser under any circumstances? How would you set up Google's advertising? I guess I'm not sure what "someone thinks it is okay to do this now" implies. Maybe I'm misinterpreting you?
  - llsf 10y ago
    I might have over-react. I just hope that it is not a deliberate choice from NRA to target such video. I get it that the targeting can be complex and factor lots of different things. The end result here is a bit disturbing.
    - grzm 10y ago
      I understand. It's hard not to react when something hits you emotionally, in particular with what's been going on recently. I've been trying to figure out how to navigate all of this as well, which is why I've been asking questions. Thanks for being a part of that :)
  - 10y ago
gcr 10y ago
What are some good MLK book recommendations for Thanksgiving break? I'd love to get into more of his work but never had the opportunity to study it.
- WaltPurvis 10y ago
  This is an excellent anthology of some noteworthy King speeches and essays: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0807034525/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0807034525/
- glasz 10y ago
  the king family lawyer's 40 year investigation: https://www.amazon.com/Plot-Kill-King-Behind-Assassination/dp/1510702172 https://www.amazon.com/Plot-Kill-King-Behind-Assassination/d... (there's some really nasty stuff most ppl don't know in there.) if you'd like a review first: http://www.ctka.net/2016/book-review-pepper-mlk/the-plot-to-kill-king.html http://www.ctka.net/2016/book-review-pepper-mlk/the-plot-to-...
- billjive 10y ago
  I would highly recommend "Hellhound on His Trail." Both a good look at King and the hunt for the assassain: https://www.amazon.com/Hellhound-His-Trail-Electrifying-American/dp/0307387437/ https://www.amazon.com/Hellhound-His-Trail-Electrifying-Amer...
Apocryphon 10y ago
Full excerpt from King’s book “Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community”: https://medium.com/basic-income/mlk-on-guaranteed-income-bfd060fd5314#.i3v0dnkya https://medium.com/basic-income/mlk-on-guaranteed-income-bfd...
dilemma 10y ago
UBI is a practical impossibility because it isn't possible to answer the most basic question in a satisfactory manner: How high should that income be?

61 points by AvenueIngres 10y ago

Take a look at Milton Friedman's thoughts as well. I believe MLK's stance was largely influenced from what he knew about Negative Income Tax. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM

nathcd 10y ago
I'm surprised I don't see negative income tax brought up in more basic income discussions. A NIT with a flat tax[1] has always seemed to me to be a really pragmatic way to implement a basic income. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax#Flat_tax_with_negative_income_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax#Flat_tax_w...
- cpleppert 10y ago
  A negative income tax has the same issues as a basic income. It isn't remotely affordable based on the current tax rates without large cuts to social spending and/or eliminating it entirely.

utnick 10y ago

It seems like it would be easier through technology to just reduce the minimum cost of living so much, that whatever basic income needed would be extremely small or even nothing at all. I'm reading the Wright Brothers Bio right now and what struck me is how they came from a really poor family ( dad was a travelling preacher ), and they owned a small bicycle shop in a small town, yet they had no trouble owning a big house, and could afford to leave the shop for several years in their 20s to go across the country to do flying experiments. That would be unthinkable today due to rent & food & healthcare costs.

m12k 10y ago
That's probably the endgame that 3D printing is pointing toward - being able to create anything you need on your own with a minimum of input needed (raw materials) so we're all self sufficient. The problem is the transition phase, where these automated production facilities are only benefitting the current owners of the factories, but have not yet become cheap or miniaturized enough to really benefit everyone (will we see a Personal Factory revolution like that of Personal Computers?). Capitalism works because the owners of the factories still need workers to run the machinery and buy the produced goods. Replace them with robots and you lose the market to sell the goods to too and the whole thing breaks down - the next 50 years are going to be a very interesting time to be alive.
- positr0n 10y ago
  > That would be unthinkable today due to rent & food & healthcare costs. 3D printing won't help with any of those.
  - wu-ikkyu 10y ago
    Food, housing inputs, and health care devices could all be printed.
    - GunboatDiplomat 10y ago
      Going out on a limb, printed food would still need foodstock inputs of some type, and housing still needs land.
jb613 10y ago
That's ridiculous. The Wright Brothers changed the world. On par if not exceeding today's equivalent of Marc Andreesen (Netscape), Bill Gates (Microsoft), Brin&Page (Google) - and the last time I checked, people like that DO own big house(s) and CAN afford to travel and do experiments without any worries about rent, food, healthcare. By today's standards, many people were "poor" back then - it's all relative. Maybe in 100+ years they'll look back and marvel at how "poor" Andreesen/Gates/etc... were too. You can be poor today and still make it big. You don't need a college degree or the massive debt that entails, you can make up for that with a good idea + hard work + persistence + live as frugal as possible + a little luck. It's not exactly the same - some things are harder and some things are easier, but overall it's still doable.

llsf 10y ago

I just watched the video, and a "Join NRA" Google ad appeared on the screen. Really, Google ?!? Placing a "Join NRA" ad on a MLK Youtube video... Either it is an awful coincidence or someone thinks it is okay to do this now.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
grzm 10y ago
I think you may be reading too much into it. What mechanisms are behind ad placement? I haven't done any online marketing so I'm not familiar with how advertising on YouTube works. So here's some speculation, none of which is meant to imply that I'm trying to assume what you're thinking. There's too little in your comment for me to do that :) If there's no ad targeting, it'd just be coincidence, right? If there's some sort of ad targeting based on some demographic data, what does that say? It may just mean that you happen to match some criteria, like you happen to live in a certain location. How about if the advertiser is targeting certain videos or types of videos? Should that be allowed? Disallowed? Allowed only in some circumstances? Maybe just not this advertiser under any circumstances? How would you set up Google's advertising? I guess I'm not sure what "someone thinks it is okay to do this now" implies. Maybe I'm misinterpreting you?
- llsf 10y ago
  I might have over-react. I just hope that it is not a deliberate choice from NRA to target such video. I get it that the targeting can be complex and factor lots of different things. The end result here is a bit disturbing.
  - grzm 10y ago
    I understand. It's hard not to react when something hits you emotionally, in particular with what's been going on recently. I've been trying to figure out how to navigate all of this as well, which is why I've been asking questions. Thanks for being a part of that :)
- 10y ago

gcr 10y ago

What are some good MLK book recommendations for Thanksgiving break? I'd love to get into more of his work but never had the opportunity to study it.

WaltPurvis 10y ago
This is an excellent anthology of some noteworthy King speeches and essays: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0807034525/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0807034525/
glasz 10y ago
the king family lawyer's 40 year investigation: https://www.amazon.com/Plot-Kill-King-Behind-Assassination/dp/1510702172 https://www.amazon.com/Plot-Kill-King-Behind-Assassination/d... (there's some really nasty stuff most ppl don't know in there.) if you'd like a review first: http://www.ctka.net/2016/book-review-pepper-mlk/the-plot-to-kill-king.html http://www.ctka.net/2016/book-review-pepper-mlk/the-plot-to-...
billjive 10y ago
I would highly recommend "Hellhound on His Trail." Both a good look at King and the hunt for the assassain: https://www.amazon.com/Hellhound-His-Trail-Electrifying-American/dp/0307387437/ https://www.amazon.com/Hellhound-His-Trail-Electrifying-Amer...

Apocryphon 10y ago

Full excerpt from King’s book “Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community”: https://medium.com/basic-income/mlk-on-guaranteed-income-bfd060fd5314#.i3v0dnkya https://medium.com/basic-income/mlk-on-guaranteed-income-bfd...

dilemma 10y ago

UBI is a practical impossibility because it isn't possible to answer the most basic question in a satisfactory manner: How high should that income be?