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Think about what happens when you decide where to eat for lunch. There's an internal process whereby you propose various images (hamburger? pizza? Mexican?). So

Think about what happens when you decide where to eat for lunch. There's an internal process whereby you propose various images (hamburger? pizza? Mexican?). Something else "inside you" says, "Nah, that doesn't sound good. Hmm, maybe. Yeah, that!" Who are you asking? Who is answering?

GuiA 10y ago
I circumvent that by eating pizza for every meal. It is the only way I can truly know that I, am me.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  Can confirm. Eating pizza.
Klathmon 10y ago
I had a discussion with my friends many years ago that your comment reminded me of. I don't "visualize" things I think about automatically. I'd need to concentrate on trying to visualize pizza to see it and even then it's a vague visualization with no real defining features. When casually thinking about pizza I don't visualize anything. Some of my friends couldn't not visualize what they were thinking about. If they think of pizza, they "see" pizza in their head, and could even describe what they were visualizing in that instance in surprising (to me) detail. We found that we were pretty well split 50/50 with no obvious associations.
- DanBC 10y ago
  There have been a couple of articles about aphantsia on HN. I'm having trouble finding them. Here's two https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10148792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10148792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11554894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11554894
  - Klathmon 10y ago
    I never knew there was a word for it! Thanks, I've got some reading to do now!
  - utopcell 10y ago
    *aphantasia (from phantasia, the greek word for fantasy, literally meaning "lack of imagination") Very interesting posts, thank you for sharing.
  - bemmu 10y ago
    How can I know that having / not having aphantasia is a real thing? Our bodies are otherwise so similar that it would be surprising if our brains were wildly different in operation. If people are able to "see" their thoughts in the same way as they see something with their eyes, wouldn't it be difficult to think about a cat while driving a car, because the cat would be in your visual field? Or is the "mind's eye" somewhere else, if so where do you feel it is? If I think about a cat, it's kind of a concept. If I try to think harder, I can sort of trace its tail and fur and ears, but it seems very different to actually seeing one. Just as when I imagine a taste, it's very different from actually tasting something (otherwise I would just imagine food all day without actually eating as much). The only time when these seem the same is when dreaming.
- ericlewis 10y ago
  I've always wondered if I had this too. I'm wondering how you describe visualize? I understand the concept and the parts and everything that pizza is but I don't necessarily visualize it. But if I was required to, I could probably draw one. Is that similar?
DanBC 10y ago
That happens for you. How do you know it happens for other people? How do you know how many other people share your experience, vs people who don't have that internal monologue?
- charlieflowers 10y ago
  I don't. Just speculating. Would love to hear about different experiences.
wyager 10y ago
What you're describing sounds like an outcome generator (which outputs the results of various possible actions) being fed into a utility function evaluator. As I understand, there is reasonable evidence for this being a functional model of part of human decision-making.
branchless 10y ago
Without trying to sound like a complete schizophrenic, I feel like I am me, but when I read about something like your post and I actively think about where my ideas come from, I feel like the person suggesting them is just ahead of me and that the act of trying to observe my own thoughts sees him duck down faster. I can only liken it to trying to catch yourself looking to the side in a mirror in front of you. Clearly impossible but as a kid I recall trying this. Tantalising. And in a few minutes I'll forget this other me and he and I will work together in concert until the next time someone blows his cover with a blog post.
deleted 10y ago
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GuiA 10y ago

I circumvent that by eating pizza for every meal. It is the only way I can truly know that I, am me.

brianwawok 10y ago
Can confirm. Eating pizza.

Klathmon 10y ago

I had a discussion with my friends many years ago that your comment reminded me of. I don't "visualize" things I think about automatically. I'd need to concentrate on trying to visualize pizza to see it and even then it's a vague visualization with no real defining features. When casually thinking about pizza I don't visualize anything. Some of my friends couldn't not visualize what they were thinking about. If they think of pizza, they "see" pizza in their head, and could even describe what they were visualizing in that instance in surprising (to me) detail. We found that we were pretty well split 50/50 with no obvious associations.

DanBC 10y ago
There have been a couple of articles about aphantsia on HN. I'm having trouble finding them. Here's two https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10148792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10148792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11554894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11554894
- Klathmon 10y ago
  I never knew there was a word for it! Thanks, I've got some reading to do now!
- utopcell 10y ago
  *aphantasia (from phantasia, the greek word for fantasy, literally meaning "lack of imagination") Very interesting posts, thank you for sharing.
- bemmu 10y ago
  How can I know that having / not having aphantasia is a real thing? Our bodies are otherwise so similar that it would be surprising if our brains were wildly different in operation. If people are able to "see" their thoughts in the same way as they see something with their eyes, wouldn't it be difficult to think about a cat while driving a car, because the cat would be in your visual field? Or is the "mind's eye" somewhere else, if so where do you feel it is? If I think about a cat, it's kind of a concept. If I try to think harder, I can sort of trace its tail and fur and ears, but it seems very different to actually seeing one. Just as when I imagine a taste, it's very different from actually tasting something (otherwise I would just imagine food all day without actually eating as much). The only time when these seem the same is when dreaming.
ericlewis 10y ago
I've always wondered if I had this too. I'm wondering how you describe visualize? I understand the concept and the parts and everything that pizza is but I don't necessarily visualize it. But if I was required to, I could probably draw one. Is that similar?

DanBC 10y ago

That happens for you. How do you know it happens for other people? How do you know how many other people share your experience, vs people who don't have that internal monologue?

charlieflowers 10y ago
I don't. Just speculating. Would love to hear about different experiences.

wyager 10y ago

What you're describing sounds like an outcome generator (which outputs the results of various possible actions) being fed into a utility function evaluator. As I understand, there is reasonable evidence for this being a functional model of part of human decision-making.

branchless 10y ago

Without trying to sound like a complete schizophrenic, I feel like I am me, but when I read about something like your post and I actively think about where my ideas come from, I feel like the person suggesting them is just ahead of me and that the act of trying to observe my own thoughts sees him duck down faster. I can only liken it to trying to catch yourself looking to the side in a mirror in front of you. Clearly impossible but as a kid I recall trying this. Tantalising. And in a few minutes I'll forget this other me and he and I will work together in concert until the next time someone blows his cover with a blog post.

deleted 10y ago

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