3 ms·

Remember when Obama promised to close the Guantánamo prison? I think that was more than 8 years ago now. Good times. I even believed it. I guess he didn't care

by Kenji 10y ago

Remember when Obama promised to close the Guantánamo prison? I think that was more than 8 years ago now. Good times. I even believed it. I guess he didn't care that much about human rights after all.

pavlov 10y ago
Read this: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/01/why-obama-has-failed-to-close-guantanamo http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/01/why-obama-has-f... Yes, it's very long. It turned out to be much harder to close Guantánamo Bay than Obama thought, with powerful forces in the government opposing or stalling. (It's also illustrative of the difficulties Trump may have carrying through any of his promises that are controversial with the Republican orthodoxy.)
- cloakandswagger 10y ago
  Whether it was feasible for Obama to close it or not, it's hard to deny that there was a fundamental shift in Obama's ideology once he took office (see: extra-judicial assassinations, abandoning Guantanamo closure, etc) I suspect that there are some pretty powerful briefings a new president receives that draw back the veil in such a way that targeted killings and torture seem like the only effective response.
  - xorxornop 10y ago
    That or the surveillance apparatus was used in a way so as to ensure that he toed the line...
  - pavlov 10y ago
    There was an interesting article in the Washington Post today about these covert-op and nuclear briefings for the president-elect: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/president-elect-donald-trump-is-about-to-learn-the-nations-deep-secrets/2016/11/12/8bf9bc40-a847-11e6-8fc0-7be8f848c492_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpsecret-430pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/presi... Some quotes that kind of confirm what you inferred about Obama: After one of the briefings in 2008, Obama told a close adviser that it was perhaps one of the most sobering experiences of his life. He said, “I’m inheriting a world that could blow up any minute in half a dozen ways, and I will have some powerful but limited and perhaps even dubious tools to keep it from happening.” “Events are messy out there,” he said. “At any given moment of the day, there are explosive, tragic, heinous, hazardous things taking place.” He acknowledged that as president it was his responsibility to deal with all these problems. “People are saying, ‘You’re the most powerful person in the world. Why aren’t you doing something about it?’ ” The following made my hair raise a bit: Trump will receive a book of options benignly called the “Presidential Decision Handbook.” This top secret/code-word book, known as the “Black Book,” of about 75 pages has separate contingency plans for using nuclear weapons against potential adversaries such as Russia and China. ... Two officials said that the “Black Book” also includes estimates on the number of casualties for each of the main options that run into the millions, and in some cases over 100 million. A man who habitually gets into 3am Twitter fights will command choices that can result in the near-instant death of 100+ million people. That's way more than Hitler, Stalin and Mao managed to kill all together. It's a strange world.
hackuser 10y ago
I think we can't discuss it without taking into account the fact that the President effectively lacks the power to close it himself. He has greatly reduced the population there, and may reduce it more before his term ends.
closeparen 10y ago
The focus on Guantanamo in particular is disturbing. We operate other prisons with similar purposes, practices, and conditions around the world. Even the people who wanted it closed only wanted that one closed. I'm surprised they didn't just move everyone to black sites and call it a day.
mikeash 10y ago
Remember when Congress worked tirelessly to block him, and ended up winning because they're ultimately the ones in control? Obama shouldn't have promised something beyond his power, but you shouldn't have believed him either, considering.

by Kenji 10y ago

pavlov 10y ago

Read this: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/01/why-obama-has-failed-to-close-guantanamo http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/01/why-obama-has-f... Yes, it's very long. It turned out to be much harder to close Guantánamo Bay than Obama thought, with powerful forces in the government opposing or stalling. (It's also illustrative of the difficulties Trump may have carrying through any of his promises that are controversial with the Republican orthodoxy.)

cloakandswagger 10y ago
Whether it was feasible for Obama to close it or not, it's hard to deny that there was a fundamental shift in Obama's ideology once he took office (see: extra-judicial assassinations, abandoning Guantanamo closure, etc) I suspect that there are some pretty powerful briefings a new president receives that draw back the veil in such a way that targeted killings and torture seem like the only effective response.
- xorxornop 10y ago
  That or the surveillance apparatus was used in a way so as to ensure that he toed the line...
- pavlov 10y ago
  There was an interesting article in the Washington Post today about these covert-op and nuclear briefings for the president-elect: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/president-elect-donald-trump-is-about-to-learn-the-nations-deep-secrets/2016/11/12/8bf9bc40-a847-11e6-8fc0-7be8f848c492_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpsecret-430pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/presi... Some quotes that kind of confirm what you inferred about Obama: After one of the briefings in 2008, Obama told a close adviser that it was perhaps one of the most sobering experiences of his life. He said, “I’m inheriting a world that could blow up any minute in half a dozen ways, and I will have some powerful but limited and perhaps even dubious tools to keep it from happening.” “Events are messy out there,” he said. “At any given moment of the day, there are explosive, tragic, heinous, hazardous things taking place.” He acknowledged that as president it was his responsibility to deal with all these problems. “People are saying, ‘You’re the most powerful person in the world. Why aren’t you doing something about it?’ ” The following made my hair raise a bit: Trump will receive a book of options benignly called the “Presidential Decision Handbook.” This top secret/code-word book, known as the “Black Book,” of about 75 pages has separate contingency plans for using nuclear weapons against potential adversaries such as Russia and China. ... Two officials said that the “Black Book” also includes estimates on the number of casualties for each of the main options that run into the millions, and in some cases over 100 million. A man who habitually gets into 3am Twitter fights will command choices that can result in the near-instant death of 100+ million people. That's way more than Hitler, Stalin and Mao managed to kill all together. It's a strange world.

hackuser 10y ago

I think we can't discuss it without taking into account the fact that the President effectively lacks the power to close it himself. He has greatly reduced the population there, and may reduce it more before his term ends.

closeparen 10y ago

The focus on Guantanamo in particular is disturbing. We operate other prisons with similar purposes, practices, and conditions around the world. Even the people who wanted it closed only wanted that one closed. I'm surprised they didn't just move everyone to black sites and call it a day.

mikeash 10y ago

Remember when Congress worked tirelessly to block him, and ended up winning because they're ultimately the ones in control? Obama shouldn't have promised something beyond his power, but you shouldn't have believed him either, considering.