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> I don't understand why people are acting like every liberal was on board with these policies until the election. As a libertarian, I agree. Many liberals h
by jnbiche 10y ago
> I don't understand why people are acting like every liberal was on board with these policies until the election.
As a libertarian, I agree. Many liberals have opposed these policies. I think even Glenn Greenwald may have or may still identify as a liberal.
However, every person I know who self-identifies as a "Democrat" and not a "liberal", has supported "all" of Obama's policies (including mass surveillance), and has condemned Snowden in the strongest terms. There are a few of those on HN, but I agree that by far most HNers oppose mass surveillance (unless there's a large "hidden" segment as is apparently the case with Trump supporters, who have come out en masse on HN in the past few days).
- dllthomas 10y agoI know a lot of people who identify as a "Democrat", few who can't find things to nitpick about any given candidate (including Obama). I'm surprised our experiences are as different as you describe. Probably presentation is different when discussing with people they view as allies versus those they view as opposition?
- koverstreet 10y agoPeople close ranks and get defensive when they think they're talking to someone in their outgroup. Stupid human psychology.
- jnbiche 10y agoYou're probably right, had I probed enough I probably could have found policy they disagreed with. But on surveillance/national security stuff, the self-identified Democrats I know have stood staunchly behind Obama, and view Snowden as a traitor. It's kind of odd how much like most Republicans they sound when talking about these issues (not counting pro-liberty Republicans like Rand Paul, who view these issues like a libertarian would).
- dogma1138 10y agoBeing against surveillance and considering Snowden a traitor are not mutually exclusive; one can be pro-privacy and liberty and still think of him as a traitor for seeking refuge in Russia and for having a deadman switch for example.
- JBlue42 10y agoI'm not disagreeing but I think it can also be hard to trace it back and be absolutely 100% on this. If Snowden hadn't committed the activities he did and revealed more information about the scope and breadth of the surveillance state, would that be good or bad? Did those activities help affirm your stance on surveillance? If so, can we truly consider them traitorous (outside of a legal standpoint)? Now, you folks are probably far better at logic puzzles than but as someone that fits the bill of pro-privacy and liberty and still questioning how to classify him, I'm open to other ways of arguing for or against.