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Its much more serious then partisanship. There is no real civilizational Ethose in America at this point. Many of us tried to stop the growth of Neo consrvatis

Its much more serious then partisanship. There is no real civilizational Ethose in America at this point. Many of us tried to stop the growth of Neo consrvatism on the Right and now Identity politics on the Left because they are both reactionary civilizrtional poison. But the hemlock was to sweet not to drink and everyone drunk.

gopher2 10y ago
Huh. Can you elaborate or point to something that talks about this culture shift away from "civilizational ethos" in detail? Obviously I'm familiar with what identity politics and neo conservatism are, but I'd like to read more about the point you're making.
- generic_user 10y ago
  I'm not a Political Scientist or even particularly well read on the subject. But 'The Clash of civilizations', by Huntington Is a fairly standard big picture view. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations America is unfortunately now immersed in tribalism. Those who should be trying to reverse the trend such as the media and Intellectuals have embraced tribalism as much as the rest. There is no civilisation that can withstand the forces of tribalism. The breakup of Yugoslavia is an informative example of how a state collapses when ethos is replaced with tribalism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia
  - hga 10y ago
    I've been hearing very good things about The Origins of Political Order: From Prehuman Times to the French Revolution (https://www.amazon.com/dp/0374533229/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/0374533229/) by Fukuyama (yes, I know, I know, but I guess he learned something after The End of History). It and Clash of Civilizations are on my near term to read list.
likeclockwork 10y ago
It's identity politics on the right too you know. White christian identity.
- kchoudhu 10y ago
  My favorite quote for this election was along the lines of "This is what happens when the majority votes as a minority identity block."
  - hga 10y ago
    But note that this majority is being told in triumphant terms that they will be a minority within their children's lives, and that's already true of live births. So why not join the game of identity politics now?
    - hackuser 10y ago
      > why not join the game of identity politics now? It's not a game. It's a serious problem of centuries of oppression, the worst things the United States has done. Issues of discrimination against minorities are not about a zero-sum competition between teams identified by their skin color, but about reducing centuries-long oppression and physical brutality, from society to the job market to law enforcement, against certain groups. The majority has the institutions of government to protect it: They can call the police, sue, and vote out politicians they don't like. They can get into colleges, get jobs in SV or in the Senate. The experiences aren't perfect, but to conceive of it as a competition between races is deceitful and inflammatory of our most dangerous instincts -- instincts that have a clear track record of slavery, lynching, and very widespread oppression. Frankly, it is encouraging evil.

gopher2 10y ago

Huh. Can you elaborate or point to something that talks about this culture shift away from "civilizational ethos" in detail? Obviously I'm familiar with what identity politics and neo conservatism are, but I'd like to read more about the point you're making.

generic_user 10y ago
I'm not a Political Scientist or even particularly well read on the subject. But 'The Clash of civilizations', by Huntington Is a fairly standard big picture view. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations America is unfortunately now immersed in tribalism. Those who should be trying to reverse the trend such as the media and Intellectuals have embraced tribalism as much as the rest. There is no civilisation that can withstand the forces of tribalism. The breakup of Yugoslavia is an informative example of how a state collapses when ethos is replaced with tribalism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia
- hga 10y ago
  I've been hearing very good things about The Origins of Political Order: From Prehuman Times to the French Revolution (https://www.amazon.com/dp/0374533229/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/0374533229/) by Fukuyama (yes, I know, I know, but I guess he learned something after The End of History). It and Clash of Civilizations are on my near term to read list.

likeclockwork 10y ago

It's identity politics on the right too you know. White christian identity.

kchoudhu 10y ago
My favorite quote for this election was along the lines of "This is what happens when the majority votes as a minority identity block."
- hga 10y ago
  But note that this majority is being told in triumphant terms that they will be a minority within their children's lives, and that's already true of live births. So why not join the game of identity politics now?
  - hackuser 10y ago
    > why not join the game of identity politics now? It's not a game. It's a serious problem of centuries of oppression, the worst things the United States has done. Issues of discrimination against minorities are not about a zero-sum competition between teams identified by their skin color, but about reducing centuries-long oppression and physical brutality, from society to the job market to law enforcement, against certain groups. The majority has the institutions of government to protect it: They can call the police, sue, and vote out politicians they don't like. They can get into colleges, get jobs in SV or in the Senate. The experiences aren't perfect, but to conceive of it as a competition between races is deceitful and inflammatory of our most dangerous instincts -- instincts that have a clear track record of slavery, lynching, and very widespread oppression. Frankly, it is encouraging evil.