4 ms·

> The simplistic "coal is bad" thesis has a) put a huge number of Americans out of work and b) made the global environment worse. I'm confident you have source

by arekkas 10y ago

> The simplistic "coal is bad" thesis has a) put a huge number of Americans out of work and b) made the global environment worse. I'm confident you have sources on b.

Turing_Machine 10y ago
"I'm confident you have sources on b." Yes. http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=9751 http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=9751 1) China consumes more coal than the rest of the world combined. 2) Environmental regulations in China range from "minimal" to "non-existent". Do you need sources on that as well?
- nameless912 10y ago
  How would this have changed if we were mining our own coal? If they're using an amount that far outstrips everyone else combined, the environmental damage would be largely the same with or without US coal.
  - Turing_Machine 10y ago
    1) A substantial portion of the Chinese coal is burned to produce steel and other products that are exported to the United States. 2) Burning that coal here (where there are environmental regulations) would produce less damage that burning it in China (where there are effectively none). I'm not sure why this is confusing. I'm also not sure why people are modding down factual posts. That type of behavior is exactly what's given you President Trump.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - Turing_Machine 10y ago
      That's it! Keep making the bad facts go away!
    - woodchuck64 10y ago
      China exports 800 million tons of steel and the US only imports 1.9% of that. Burning coal here will have very little impact on China steel operations. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-column-russell-steel-china-idUSKCN0W40Y1 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-column-russell-steel-china... http://www.ita.doc.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/imports-us.pdf http://www.ita.doc.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/imports-us.pdf
- Spoom 10y ago
  I am confused by this argument as it seems to be orthogonal to the point the GP was making, namely that coal does have a large impact on the global environment. Stating that China uses a lot of coal isn't exactly helping your case, considering that coal causes more air pollution deaths in China than any other source[1]. 1. https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/18/world/asia/china-coal-health-smog-pollution.amp.html?client=ms-android-google https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/18/wor...
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- skybrian 10y ago
  China also has huge investments in solar and some of the worst pollution anywhere. They've hit peak coal and are apparently starting in the other direction [1]. [1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/25/china-coal-peak-hailed-turning-point-climate-change-battle https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment...
  - melling 10y ago
    According to Wikipedia, eletriciy generation from coal is at 73%. And it is questionable if they are at peak coal. If their electricity generation doubles and they reduce the percentage to 60%, they're going to be burning a lot of coal. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_in_China Yes, China does produce a lot of solar but what percentage of electricity is that? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_China You are speaking in generalities and not using hard data. That is no way to analyze a problem.
    - skybrian 10y ago
      I'm not an expert in this issue or doing any analysis, and neither are you. I shared a link I thought was interesting. I'm sure there is better analysis out there if someone cares to look, but I'm not going to do that right now.
      - carlvonlinne 10y ago
        China is indeed 'greening' its economy to move to what it calls a Ecological Civilisation. This is a big development, and it goes lumpy but its government bodies coordination is improving. An example of which is the development of a Green Financial Systems (see this PBoC's link: http://www.pbc.gov.cn/english/130721/3131759/index.html http://www.pbc.gov.cn/english/130721/3131759/index.html)

by arekkas 10y ago

> The simplistic "coal is bad" thesis has a) put a huge number of Americans out of work and b) made the global environment worse. I'm confident you have sources on b.

Turing_Machine 10y ago

"I'm confident you have sources on b." Yes. http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=9751 http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=9751 1) China consumes more coal than the rest of the world combined. 2) Environmental regulations in China range from "minimal" to "non-existent". Do you need sources on that as well?

nameless912 10y ago
How would this have changed if we were mining our own coal? If they're using an amount that far outstrips everyone else combined, the environmental damage would be largely the same with or without US coal.
- Turing_Machine 10y ago
  1) A substantial portion of the Chinese coal is burned to produce steel and other products that are exported to the United States. 2) Burning that coal here (where there are environmental regulations) would produce less damage that burning it in China (where there are effectively none). I'm not sure why this is confusing. I'm also not sure why people are modding down factual posts. That type of behavior is exactly what's given you President Trump.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - Turing_Machine 10y ago
    That's it! Keep making the bad facts go away!
  - woodchuck64 10y ago
    China exports 800 million tons of steel and the US only imports 1.9% of that. Burning coal here will have very little impact on China steel operations. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-column-russell-steel-china-idUSKCN0W40Y1 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-column-russell-steel-china... http://www.ita.doc.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/imports-us.pdf http://www.ita.doc.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/imports-us.pdf
Spoom 10y ago
I am confused by this argument as it seems to be orthogonal to the point the GP was making, namely that coal does have a large impact on the global environment. Stating that China uses a lot of coal isn't exactly helping your case, considering that coal causes more air pollution deaths in China than any other source[1]. 1. https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/18/world/asia/china-coal-health-smog-pollution.amp.html?client=ms-android-google https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/18/wor...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
skybrian 10y ago
China also has huge investments in solar and some of the worst pollution anywhere. They've hit peak coal and are apparently starting in the other direction [1]. [1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/25/china-coal-peak-hailed-turning-point-climate-change-battle https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment...
- melling 10y ago
  According to Wikipedia, eletriciy generation from coal is at 73%. And it is questionable if they are at peak coal. If their electricity generation doubles and they reduce the percentage to 60%, they're going to be burning a lot of coal. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_in_China Yes, China does produce a lot of solar but what percentage of electricity is that? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_China You are speaking in generalities and not using hard data. That is no way to analyze a problem.
  - skybrian 10y ago
    I'm not an expert in this issue or doing any analysis, and neither are you. I shared a link I thought was interesting. I'm sure there is better analysis out there if someone cares to look, but I'm not going to do that right now.
    - carlvonlinne 10y ago
      China is indeed 'greening' its economy to move to what it calls a Ecological Civilisation. This is a big development, and it goes lumpy but its government bodies coordination is improving. An example of which is the development of a Green Financial Systems (see this PBoC's link: http://www.pbc.gov.cn/english/130721/3131759/index.html http://www.pbc.gov.cn/english/130721/3131759/index.html)