4 ms·

> Uber pays drivers peanuts; we should call it "Goober", or rather "Guber". Drivers are free to not drive for Uber. Uber operates within a free market. Obvious

by fixxer 10y ago

> Uber pays drivers peanuts; we should call it "Goober", or rather "Guber". Drivers are free to not drive for Uber. Uber operates within a free market. Obviously, the economic incentives are enough for many. Amusing that the godfather of free software has so little understanding of the free market.

chappi42 10y ago
And if they don't have the choice to not drive for Uber? Maybe b/c higher paying taxis have been unable to compete? - Rather unamusing that Uber is (still) allowed to shift much of the risk to their drivers. Glad that in Germany the politics works better in this regard!
- fixxer 10y ago
  Interesting... Where is this mythical land where the only source of income is from ferrying people to and fro? What do those passengers do for income? Free market doesn't just mean free to drive for other companies (if available). It means free to work in any other field for which you have opportunity. Are you claiming that some people are only qualified to drive taxis? (As for German politics, I think I'll take our free market over the astronomical shitshow that Merkel has given you.)
  - chappi42 10y ago
    Free market doesn't mean that the government wouldn't be allowed to set basic standards which must be complied with. When I read that the income for Uber drivers goes as low as 8 US$/hr after deductions/costs, I think regulations are not uncalled for. (Regarding Merkel, it's difficult, won't comment)
    - erikbye 10y ago
      The very definition of a free market is a market free from government intervention. That's why what you have in the US, and most so-called capitalist states, have what is called a regulated market, not a free market. Another hallmark of a free market is that the market should rid itself of business that do not do well. In the US the governments bails out business that do not do well (like banks). Hence, Chomsky calls it a nanny state.
alkonaut 10y ago
People are free to work for whatever company they want, but where I live they still have to provide predictable schedules, pay a living wage, sick leave, provide paid holidays etc. I'd be completely cool with Ubers business model if they simply followed local regulations for taxi services (insurance etc) and guaranteed a living wage and a predictable schedule. They are a taxi company and as such they are an employer. Dodging that responsibility by claiming your drivers are self employed contractors is BS. Luckily they are forced to follow exactly what I described above in more and more places around the world. I suspect that if their endgame wasn't driverless cars, they would already have left any city where they can't dodge labor laws.
- fixxer 10y ago
  I fully support the right for your country to enforce your laws, but realize that other countries may not share your perspective. I welcome deregulation in the taxi industry. In the United States, taxi companies are too often more than a bit on the shady side, so I don't think this is a case of Uber being the bad entity. Talking to taxi drivers in Chicago, I hear a lot of exploitation. American Taxi, for example, forces drivers to use their cc processing at 10-15% (if they don't, their dispatch magically turns off). I ask every driver about this and they all confirm. For a little more color... It may not be the case anymore, but I believe Alvin Malnik controlled Palm Beach taxis for quite a while (trying to dog this up in the Florida business db, but on my phone right now). He was Meyer Lansky's attorney... Take from that what you will. Pretty sure he also was early in getting into the title loan business, so obviously a shrewd businessman that is comfortable with walking in the grey. I'd rather work for Uber.
  - alkonaut 10y ago
    I don't think my perspective on labor laws is regional - every country has some form of labor laws. Obviously Uber in the US should just abide by US labor laws, but they currently aren't - they use a loophole of non-employment, - loophole that is hopefully (and probably) being closed. Cc processing? Cc being credit card? Are drivers opposed to using credit cards? I'm pretty sure I can't pay cash for taxis here (drivers don't want to handle cash due to the inherent risks).

by fixxer 10y ago

chappi42 10y ago

And if they don't have the choice to not drive for Uber? Maybe b/c higher paying taxis have been unable to compete? - Rather unamusing that Uber is (still) allowed to shift much of the risk to their drivers. Glad that in Germany the politics works better in this regard!

fixxer 10y ago
Interesting... Where is this mythical land where the only source of income is from ferrying people to and fro? What do those passengers do for income? Free market doesn't just mean free to drive for other companies (if available). It means free to work in any other field for which you have opportunity. Are you claiming that some people are only qualified to drive taxis? (As for German politics, I think I'll take our free market over the astronomical shitshow that Merkel has given you.)
- chappi42 10y ago
  Free market doesn't mean that the government wouldn't be allowed to set basic standards which must be complied with. When I read that the income for Uber drivers goes as low as 8 US$/hr after deductions/costs, I think regulations are not uncalled for. (Regarding Merkel, it's difficult, won't comment)
  - erikbye 10y ago
    The very definition of a free market is a market free from government intervention. That's why what you have in the US, and most so-called capitalist states, have what is called a regulated market, not a free market. Another hallmark of a free market is that the market should rid itself of business that do not do well. In the US the governments bails out business that do not do well (like banks). Hence, Chomsky calls it a nanny state.

alkonaut 10y ago

People are free to work for whatever company they want, but where I live they still have to provide predictable schedules, pay a living wage, sick leave, provide paid holidays etc. I'd be completely cool with Ubers business model if they simply followed local regulations for taxi services (insurance etc) and guaranteed a living wage and a predictable schedule. They are a taxi company and as such they are an employer. Dodging that responsibility by claiming your drivers are self employed contractors is BS. Luckily they are forced to follow exactly what I described above in more and more places around the world. I suspect that if their endgame wasn't driverless cars, they would already have left any city where they can't dodge labor laws.

fixxer 10y ago
I fully support the right for your country to enforce your laws, but realize that other countries may not share your perspective. I welcome deregulation in the taxi industry. In the United States, taxi companies are too often more than a bit on the shady side, so I don't think this is a case of Uber being the bad entity. Talking to taxi drivers in Chicago, I hear a lot of exploitation. American Taxi, for example, forces drivers to use their cc processing at 10-15% (if they don't, their dispatch magically turns off). I ask every driver about this and they all confirm. For a little more color... It may not be the case anymore, but I believe Alvin Malnik controlled Palm Beach taxis for quite a while (trying to dog this up in the Florida business db, but on my phone right now). He was Meyer Lansky's attorney... Take from that what you will. Pretty sure he also was early in getting into the title loan business, so obviously a shrewd businessman that is comfortable with walking in the grey. I'd rather work for Uber.
- alkonaut 10y ago
  I don't think my perspective on labor laws is regional - every country has some form of labor laws. Obviously Uber in the US should just abide by US labor laws, but they currently aren't - they use a loophole of non-employment, - loophole that is hopefully (and probably) being closed. Cc processing? Cc being credit card? Are drivers opposed to using credit cards? I'm pretty sure I can't pay cash for taxis here (drivers don't want to handle cash due to the inherent risks).