7 ms·

Stallman: Why it is important not to have children (2012)

51 points by shubhamjain 10y ago

SpaceInvader 10y ago
Having kids is the best thing that ever happened to me.
- myf01d 10y ago
  me too https://i.imgur.com/l5bSBDN.jpg https://i.imgur.com/l5bSBDN.jpg
austincheney 10y ago
What an oversimplification by somebody who sounds like an emotional failure. I am very active in writing OSS (probably more so than with my primary job). I also have two jobs (corporate web developer for a major dot com and army reserves) and yet still find time for the healthy marriage and kids (of whom are now teenagers). It certainly can be done. It certainly hasn't made me wealthy though. I wouldn't be able to make this happen at all if it weren't for personality. A certain amount of charisma, dedication, humor, and patience. I am also a bit more hyper than the average person and require far less sleep than average and don't spend any time on Twitter or Facebook.
leecarraher 10y ago
i can't tell if Stallman is trying to become an amalgam of Roald Dahl antagonists to maintain his lore, or if it's just his baseline demeanor. Also his point that you can't get anything worthwhile accomplished while being a competent parent misses quite a few amazing parents and contributors to humanity.
brutus1213 10y ago
As a new father, what he said about fathers doing what it takes to support their kids hit home. That said, I have made a decision (it wasn't a grand plan but sort of happened over the past few months) to put my family over my career. This meant forgoing a promo to management when I was next in line, and some other things. I'm not going to say it doesn't hurt .. but when I see my kids smile, I know it was the right decision for me.
pskocik 10y ago
A very smart programmer who's made a large contribution to society decides not to have kids while people of which neither can be said breed like rabbits. Looks like we'll be watering crops with Brawndo pretty soon.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  ^ Idiocracy (the movie) to anyone who missed the reference.
jstewartmobile 10y ago
I am so glad I had children. I enjoy their company tremendously, and the added responsibility has sharpened my game. That, and the whole eco-disaster angle is overblown. Thanks to birth control, Westernized peoples are barely replacing themselves. I feel bad for poor Stallman. Too focused on saving the world to save himself.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  Western people aren't even replacing themselves without immigration Europe would be in a population decline. The US still has a positive natural population growth but many countries do not. I find the arguments for not having children a disastrous one. Reproduction is effectively our prime directive as a life form. Furthermore it's utterly ironic that the people that could care for their offsprings the most seem to have the least interest in reproduction. And arguably the best way to avoid and ecological disaster is to reproduce and teach the next generation better, with each child we also increase the chance of someone being born that will have a huge impact on society, technology and culture.
  - youdounderstand 10y ago
    That presupposes some reason for humanity to keep existing.
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      I really don't understand these types of comments - humanity shouldn't exist; fine then practice what you preach, but I doubt you are willing to go first.
- sametmax 10y ago
  Not replacing ourself is a good thing. We are too many, and right now we want the population to grow because our economical system depend on it. This is reverse thinking. We have economical problems because there are too many of us. Too many to feed. Too many to host. Too many with a car, a smartphone, heaters in the winter, and eating meat 5 times a week. We would have zero resources problem with 1/3 or our current population. Pollution, climat change, administration issues, education... All that stuff are way harder because there are too many of us. Of course, we could consume less, but since we are unable to do that, being a smaller number is a much easier solution. There is also a very unhealty "cult of having children". People that don't have children are considered incomplete and looked down. It's a must have, a goal you are supposed to try to reach in your live. And of course, there is the fact most people I met in my life suck at being parent. They are feeding and clothing their children, but their ability to educate is terrible, and they spend years at training their children to have the same fear and ignorance they have. The children that were creative, full of energy, of potential, turn into the same zombies their parent are. Scared, unable to create something. Unhappy. So no, you are not a bad person for having children. But it's sane to say most people should at least consider not having any. There should be a debate. It should not be obvious. Raising children correctly is one of the hardest job ever, yet, most people have children almost without thinking about it. It is scary.
Normal_gaussian 10y ago
Whilst in principle I agree with him the piece reads as a desperate post-event justification for not having had children. I think the real reasons he has no children can be found in the last email on this page: https://stallman.org/ex-boyfriends-list.html https://stallman.org/ex-boyfriends-list.html As for having children - it is something I am greatly concerned about. Personally I really want children, though I do not want them unless I am convinced I am with the right person. My motivation is both selfish and a desire to put better individuals than myself into future society. Adoption and sponsorship spring to mind as incredibly likely occurrences even if I have children.
- reducesuffering 10y ago
  Oh wow. Those emails could very well explain why he doesn't have children. Why would he put those up?
  - Normal_gaussian 10y ago
    It was the fourth link on a google search for "stallman married". As to why somebody would put such a thing up I don't know. I started to click around his site a bit more after posting and became increasingly uncomfortable. I find it saddening, but of what I did see of the rest it seems he views his ventures into personal relationships as amusing, and I can't help but consider such openness in his specific case to be useful as a warning for those in our society who may fall down a similar path without intending to.
doytch 10y ago
I think it boils down to the fact that you can't give 100% to multiple things. If you're passionate about your work and want to give 100% to that, your social life, your home life, your health, or any other portion of your life simply won't get 100%. That said, this'll get a bunch of people jumping on him. People hear this in general and and it makes sense, but hearing it with respect to childcare tends to elicit a more combative reaction. Which is understandable, nobody likes to be made to feel like they're a bad parent.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
crispytx 10y ago
What a sad man.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
tumbas 10y ago
it's because Richard is a communist free mason and he thinks that if you others reproduce it will make the earth crowded so he wants you to follow his example and that is why he spreads these ideas
pksadiq 10y ago
Seems like he forgot that he himself was a child. He wouldn't exist to say this if not. Ironic!
theonemind 10y ago
Before you post, 1. Are you a parent? 2. Are you about to post some variation of "Richard Stallman is emotionally broken?" i.e., "What an oversimplification by somebody who sounds like an emotional failure", or "I feel bad for poor Stallman" or "What a sad man" 3. Are you a parent, or have strong feelings about becoming a parent? If you answered yes on step 3, and want to know how I knew, it's because you disregarded that Richard puts his ethical argument for the implications to humanity first, and you go for personal "attacks" rather than addressing the crux of the argument.
- raverbashing 10y ago
  Every person is somebody's child "Implications to humanity?" There's no humanity if people don't reproduce. It's that simple
  - glass_of_water 10y ago
    You are presenting a false dichotomy. The choice is not between everyone having children and no one having children. Stallman even addresses your objection in his post: > I don't wish that nobody had any children; I don't want humanity to disappear.
  - bluejekyll 10y ago
    Implications would be that future generations of people would have a functional planet to live on. Stallman is making the argument that it's acceptable to not have kids for very good reasons, and that many people might be better off not having kids. He is definitely not saaying everyone should stop having kids. I think all too often people who will turn out to be horrible parents are pressured into having kids. Not everyone should have kids.
    - Dateki 10y ago
      This is a site which works through further arguments. http://vhemt.org/ http://vhemt.org/
  - craftkiller 10y ago
orthoganol 10y ago
I think this is the kind of discussion that requires careful disclaimers or self-disqualification from participants. If you have chosen to have kids, or sworn to never have them, your position will be irrevocably slanted. The same goes for discussions about marriage, or fundamental lifestyle choices like being a digital nomad vs. working at a well known tech company. I don't think I have ever seen one side bridge the gap with the other. EDIT - I'm not saying this applies to all discussion, I'm saying this applies to a special class of discussion. I'm also not saying don't discuss, I'm saying if you're already in one camp, know that your position is irrevocably slanted so take that into consideration.
- djoldman 10y ago
  "If you have chosen to have kids, or sworn to never have them, your position will be irrevocably slanted." This seems to me to be the first step towards an ad hominem argument. Perhaps it would be better to analyze a particular argument's logic rather than its source. If I'm mistaken, I apologize; please advise.
- bluejekyll 10y ago
  Well, in that case why debate anything at all? People will always have biases, and if you limit discussions to those that don't have biases, then you remove all real life experience from the debate, at which point how would you possibly reach a valid conclusion? Stating you bias upfront, then trying to come to objective consensus is the entire point of debate and discussion, isn't it?
Dateki 10y ago
The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement It fits on a bumper sticker: May we live long and die out. https://vimeo.com/7652051 https://vimeo.com/7652051 "A short film by Nina Paley that explores the topic of human population growth and how it is affecting life on the planet. Using humor and some great clips featuring Les Knight of VHEMT.org, and Cris Korda of the Church of Euthanasia, Paley brings light to a topic that gets little attention in the traditional media."
Jamesbeam 10y ago
I think you should respect his choice, but we can argue about the reasons and argumentations for that choice. I don't know if Mr. Stallman has siblings. But if not, it means that his bloodline will end with his death. Let that sit for a moment and think about it. Think about the hundreds of people in your ancestry that lived through world wars and the dark ages and all kinds of other "bad times," compared to the hundred or so years we are currently living in so that you can make a choice to end your bloodline for good. While he has some pretty compelling reasons, he also potentially denies humanity not only the best version of himself and his values but maybe one of the greatest minds of their time. If you don't have kids, you'll never know or see their real potential. I personally think you owe it to the people who went through pain and hunger, slavery, world wars, and all of the kind of other terrifying things that we can read up in our history that you keep the bloodline going. So while I respect the choice he made, I wouldn't necessarily call it clever for a man with his intellect. It is only one thing for sure and that is egocentrically and selfish. On the other hand, if he truly thinks he has nothing of value to pass down the line, be it genetic material or his values, then it is a good thing he decides to have no kids.
- fourthark 10y ago
  You can certainly pass values down to the next generation without having kids.
  - Jamesbeam 10y ago
    Sure you can, it's not exclusive to your kids. But let me give you an example. My ancestry is very well documented back to 1100ish. Most of my ancestors had either a military function or later on were law enforcement officers. When I grew up, my parents left me the choice to do anything I want.My grades were good enough to go to a University and become a doctor or lawyer. But since I've been a child I had a natural desire to protect people. I did that in school. And well I am retired now, but I did that for all of my life more or less. This could of course just be imagination as there is no scientific proof. But I think that some of these values were passed down our bloodline. And that is just different than learning values from someone else. It's like an imprint. So if you decide not to have kids and you don't have a brother or sister who can keep the bloodline going that is an absolutely fine choice, but it's also a shame that that genetics and traits that were passed down for centuries get lost. English is not my mother tongue, I hope you can get my point.
losteverything 10y ago
<Not having children is an important contribution to humanity. The only thing that matters is having children that have healthy children that have healthy children. It's our purpose to keep the species going. Two emerge. Those that keep the species going and those that support those that keep the species going. Thank you for your contribution to humanity as you stated.
throwaway161112 10y ago
I had similar beliefs when I was in my 20s and now I have two children in my late 30s. We all have to row our own canoe. That being said. This is an interesting topic that has to have some academic research and/or modeling behind it. Anyone have some sources? What happens if our best minds do not reproduce? What is the expected outcome of Japan's population decline?
bluejekyll 10y ago
While I tend to agree with I him I did decide to have kids. And they're awesome, a lot of work, and completely all consuming of your time. That's why this statement from someone who opted not to have kids seems so disconnected: > You can also say, "Having children is selfish. If you don't have children, you can dedicate your time to something that the world really needs." Actually, I believe successful (and I suppose my success or lack of is probably still 13 years from proving out) parenting requires complete selflessness. An ability to look past your own desires and needs to focus on those of your kids. There isn't a better trial in life, than having to make the difficult decision about doing something for yourself, or something for your kids. Marriage is similar. When I explain being a parent to people, I make it clear that you will be giving up significant amounts of your own time and desires. So if your good with that, then when you have kids, try and be as present as possible for them to help them grow into decent humans.
crasp 10y ago
Disclaimer: I am a parent. Regardles here's my 2c: I can't speak for the places where this article was published but given this site is its only source this will mostly be read by people that are in general interested in programming or have some interest in open source software. I think we need some kind of future where these genes might be needed to actually help turn the tide on most of the problem with overpopulation, the environment and climate change. This will most likely not be read by people that do not care about programming or open source software or simply do not care about any of this stuff. They will still reproduce and make the problem bigger. I would say the people that DO care about all these things need to be well represented in the future as well if we want to see change in the future as well. I am not saying he makes no valid points but these points mostly miss their target audience and are read by the wrong group of people.
- bluejekyll 10y ago
  It doesn't necessarily need to be your own kids that you teach these skills to. There are lots of programs to which you can donate your time to help teach children, and we should all be doing that more. Yes, there is some amount of genetics that will not get represented, but I don't actually believe that the human genetic pool is so focused that we will actually miss out on some next evolutionary step.
darod 10y ago
While the overpopulation argument is debatable, the decision to have or not have kids is a personal one. While some believe reproduction is our prime directive as a life form, I would argue passing information to the next generation is our prime directive. Whether it's through DNA or a book, this is the way our species evolves each generation. On another note, I find it interesting that having been inflicted with cancer at 33 that I have friends who still encourage me to have kids. I don't think changing diapers between rounds of chemo would be a wise decision.
- dingaling 10y ago
  > Whether it's through DNA or a book, this is the way our species evolves each generation. That's a great point and although I am currently raising a toddler I really don't feel that I've 'contributed' to society or humanity in general at this point. Many colleagues talk about their hope that their kids will 'grow up to do something great' but that's abstract and wishy. My wife was very keen to have a child before she was too old to accept the risks, so we did so. But I'd much rather have put the time and money into research for a book that would propagate at least a little knowledge forward in time.
LisaDziuba 10y ago
If I told it to my mother, that would be the worst disappointment in her life. In our culture, you must be married and have children (before 25 y.o). Otherwise, you are not normal and everybody around (parents, friends, acquaintances) will ask you stupid questions: "when are planning to merry?" "when are planning to have children?" + long educational lecture on why it's so important. That's a disaster.
clinth 10y ago
I have a ton of respect for people who choose not to have children, for whatever reason. Good on them. I think the societal drive to marry and have children is bullshit, especially for women. You can be a fully-realized person without children. Having said that, it's not a bad choice to have children. This essay covers a lot of ground very quickly, but the part about effort distribution resonated with me and I disagree with it. Yes, career plus family are challenging, but I'm glad I have both. There's never 100% done with with anything, including parenting and work. I don't know a single person who has fully accomplished everything they want to do, no matter how singly focused they are. I don't know what 100% parenting would look like. Kids aren't sculpture which stop progressing when not being worked. They're people. Yes, as a parent you spend time with them, and thinking of them, but you're not failing when you're thinking of something else.
razzaj 10y ago
Sure, kids complicate things. They also have the unique attibute of being non-undoable. And life is surely much simpler without them. But aren't all enriching things in life complicated? Like love, starting a company, friendship, learning. I have kids, and i dont think of people who decide not to have any as "wrong". This is clearly a personal choice, but i can definitely say they are missing out on a great source of richness, and tons of joy.
Hydraulix989 10y ago
Can somebody please explain to me why this got flagged?

51 points by shubhamjain 10y ago

SpaceInvader 10y ago

Having kids is the best thing that ever happened to me.

myf01d 10y ago
me too https://i.imgur.com/l5bSBDN.jpg https://i.imgur.com/l5bSBDN.jpg

austincheney 10y ago

What an oversimplification by somebody who sounds like an emotional failure. I am very active in writing OSS (probably more so than with my primary job). I also have two jobs (corporate web developer for a major dot com and army reserves) and yet still find time for the healthy marriage and kids (of whom are now teenagers). It certainly can be done. It certainly hasn't made me wealthy though. I wouldn't be able to make this happen at all if it weren't for personality. A certain amount of charisma, dedication, humor, and patience. I am also a bit more hyper than the average person and require far less sleep than average and don't spend any time on Twitter or Facebook.

leecarraher 10y ago

i can't tell if Stallman is trying to become an amalgam of Roald Dahl antagonists to maintain his lore, or if it's just his baseline demeanor. Also his point that you can't get anything worthwhile accomplished while being a competent parent misses quite a few amazing parents and contributors to humanity.

brutus1213 10y ago

As a new father, what he said about fathers doing what it takes to support their kids hit home. That said, I have made a decision (it wasn't a grand plan but sort of happened over the past few months) to put my family over my career. This meant forgoing a promo to management when I was next in line, and some other things. I'm not going to say it doesn't hurt .. but when I see my kids smile, I know it was the right decision for me.

pskocik 10y ago

A very smart programmer who's made a large contribution to society decides not to have kids while people of which neither can be said breed like rabbits. Looks like we'll be watering crops with Brawndo pretty soon.

dogma1138 10y ago
^ Idiocracy (the movie) to anyone who missed the reference.

jstewartmobile 10y ago

I am so glad I had children. I enjoy their company tremendously, and the added responsibility has sharpened my game. That, and the whole eco-disaster angle is overblown. Thanks to birth control, Westernized peoples are barely replacing themselves. I feel bad for poor Stallman. Too focused on saving the world to save himself.

dogma1138 10y ago
Western people aren't even replacing themselves without immigration Europe would be in a population decline. The US still has a positive natural population growth but many countries do not. I find the arguments for not having children a disastrous one. Reproduction is effectively our prime directive as a life form. Furthermore it's utterly ironic that the people that could care for their offsprings the most seem to have the least interest in reproduction. And arguably the best way to avoid and ecological disaster is to reproduce and teach the next generation better, with each child we also increase the chance of someone being born that will have a huge impact on society, technology and culture.
- youdounderstand 10y ago
  That presupposes some reason for humanity to keep existing.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    I really don't understand these types of comments - humanity shouldn't exist; fine then practice what you preach, but I doubt you are willing to go first.
sametmax 10y ago
Not replacing ourself is a good thing. We are too many, and right now we want the population to grow because our economical system depend on it. This is reverse thinking. We have economical problems because there are too many of us. Too many to feed. Too many to host. Too many with a car, a smartphone, heaters in the winter, and eating meat 5 times a week. We would have zero resources problem with 1/3 or our current population. Pollution, climat change, administration issues, education... All that stuff are way harder because there are too many of us. Of course, we could consume less, but since we are unable to do that, being a smaller number is a much easier solution. There is also a very unhealty "cult of having children". People that don't have children are considered incomplete and looked down. It's a must have, a goal you are supposed to try to reach in your live. And of course, there is the fact most people I met in my life suck at being parent. They are feeding and clothing their children, but their ability to educate is terrible, and they spend years at training their children to have the same fear and ignorance they have. The children that were creative, full of energy, of potential, turn into the same zombies their parent are. Scared, unable to create something. Unhappy. So no, you are not a bad person for having children. But it's sane to say most people should at least consider not having any. There should be a debate. It should not be obvious. Raising children correctly is one of the hardest job ever, yet, most people have children almost without thinking about it. It is scary.

Normal_gaussian 10y ago

Whilst in principle I agree with him the piece reads as a desperate post-event justification for not having had children. I think the real reasons he has no children can be found in the last email on this page: https://stallman.org/ex-boyfriends-list.html https://stallman.org/ex-boyfriends-list.html As for having children - it is something I am greatly concerned about. Personally I really want children, though I do not want them unless I am convinced I am with the right person. My motivation is both selfish and a desire to put better individuals than myself into future society. Adoption and sponsorship spring to mind as incredibly likely occurrences even if I have children.

reducesuffering 10y ago
Oh wow. Those emails could very well explain why he doesn't have children. Why would he put those up?
- Normal_gaussian 10y ago
  It was the fourth link on a google search for "stallman married". As to why somebody would put such a thing up I don't know. I started to click around his site a bit more after posting and became increasingly uncomfortable. I find it saddening, but of what I did see of the rest it seems he views his ventures into personal relationships as amusing, and I can't help but consider such openness in his specific case to be useful as a warning for those in our society who may fall down a similar path without intending to.

doytch 10y ago

I think it boils down to the fact that you can't give 100% to multiple things. If you're passionate about your work and want to give 100% to that, your social life, your home life, your health, or any other portion of your life simply won't get 100%. That said, this'll get a bunch of people jumping on him. People hear this in general and and it makes sense, but hearing it with respect to childcare tends to elicit a more combative reaction. Which is understandable, nobody likes to be made to feel like they're a bad parent.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

crispytx 10y ago

What a sad man.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

tumbas 10y ago

it's because Richard is a communist free mason and he thinks that if you others reproduce it will make the earth crowded so he wants you to follow his example and that is why he spreads these ideas

pksadiq 10y ago

Seems like he forgot that he himself was a child. He wouldn't exist to say this if not. Ironic!

theonemind 10y ago

Before you post, 1. Are you a parent? 2. Are you about to post some variation of "Richard Stallman is emotionally broken?" i.e., "What an oversimplification by somebody who sounds like an emotional failure", or "I feel bad for poor Stallman" or "What a sad man" 3. Are you a parent, or have strong feelings about becoming a parent? If you answered yes on step 3, and want to know how I knew, it's because you disregarded that Richard puts his ethical argument for the implications to humanity first, and you go for personal "attacks" rather than addressing the crux of the argument.

raverbashing 10y ago
Every person is somebody's child "Implications to humanity?" There's no humanity if people don't reproduce. It's that simple
- glass_of_water 10y ago
  You are presenting a false dichotomy. The choice is not between everyone having children and no one having children. Stallman even addresses your objection in his post: > I don't wish that nobody had any children; I don't want humanity to disappear.
- bluejekyll 10y ago
  Implications would be that future generations of people would have a functional planet to live on. Stallman is making the argument that it's acceptable to not have kids for very good reasons, and that many people might be better off not having kids. He is definitely not saaying everyone should stop having kids. I think all too often people who will turn out to be horrible parents are pressured into having kids. Not everyone should have kids.
  - Dateki 10y ago
    This is a site which works through further arguments. http://vhemt.org/ http://vhemt.org/
- craftkiller 10y ago

orthoganol 10y ago

I think this is the kind of discussion that requires careful disclaimers or self-disqualification from participants. If you have chosen to have kids, or sworn to never have them, your position will be irrevocably slanted. The same goes for discussions about marriage, or fundamental lifestyle choices like being a digital nomad vs. working at a well known tech company. I don't think I have ever seen one side bridge the gap with the other. EDIT - I'm not saying this applies to all discussion, I'm saying this applies to a special class of discussion. I'm also not saying don't discuss, I'm saying if you're already in one camp, know that your position is irrevocably slanted so take that into consideration.

djoldman 10y ago
"If you have chosen to have kids, or sworn to never have them, your position will be irrevocably slanted." This seems to me to be the first step towards an ad hominem argument. Perhaps it would be better to analyze a particular argument's logic rather than its source. If I'm mistaken, I apologize; please advise.
bluejekyll 10y ago
Well, in that case why debate anything at all? People will always have biases, and if you limit discussions to those that don't have biases, then you remove all real life experience from the debate, at which point how would you possibly reach a valid conclusion? Stating you bias upfront, then trying to come to objective consensus is the entire point of debate and discussion, isn't it?

Dateki 10y ago

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement It fits on a bumper sticker: May we live long and die out. https://vimeo.com/7652051 https://vimeo.com/7652051 "A short film by Nina Paley that explores the topic of human population growth and how it is affecting life on the planet. Using humor and some great clips featuring Les Knight of VHEMT.org, and Cris Korda of the Church of Euthanasia, Paley brings light to a topic that gets little attention in the traditional media."

Jamesbeam 10y ago

I think you should respect his choice, but we can argue about the reasons and argumentations for that choice. I don't know if Mr. Stallman has siblings. But if not, it means that his bloodline will end with his death. Let that sit for a moment and think about it. Think about the hundreds of people in your ancestry that lived through world wars and the dark ages and all kinds of other "bad times," compared to the hundred or so years we are currently living in so that you can make a choice to end your bloodline for good. While he has some pretty compelling reasons, he also potentially denies humanity not only the best version of himself and his values but maybe one of the greatest minds of their time. If you don't have kids, you'll never know or see their real potential. I personally think you owe it to the people who went through pain and hunger, slavery, world wars, and all of the kind of other terrifying things that we can read up in our history that you keep the bloodline going. So while I respect the choice he made, I wouldn't necessarily call it clever for a man with his intellect. It is only one thing for sure and that is egocentrically and selfish. On the other hand, if he truly thinks he has nothing of value to pass down the line, be it genetic material or his values, then it is a good thing he decides to have no kids.

fourthark 10y ago
You can certainly pass values down to the next generation without having kids.
- Jamesbeam 10y ago
  Sure you can, it's not exclusive to your kids. But let me give you an example. My ancestry is very well documented back to 1100ish. Most of my ancestors had either a military function or later on were law enforcement officers. When I grew up, my parents left me the choice to do anything I want.My grades were good enough to go to a University and become a doctor or lawyer. But since I've been a child I had a natural desire to protect people. I did that in school. And well I am retired now, but I did that for all of my life more or less. This could of course just be imagination as there is no scientific proof. But I think that some of these values were passed down our bloodline. And that is just different than learning values from someone else. It's like an imprint. So if you decide not to have kids and you don't have a brother or sister who can keep the bloodline going that is an absolutely fine choice, but it's also a shame that that genetics and traits that were passed down for centuries get lost. English is not my mother tongue, I hope you can get my point.

losteverything 10y ago

<Not having children is an important contribution to humanity. The only thing that matters is having children that have healthy children that have healthy children. It's our purpose to keep the species going. Two emerge. Those that keep the species going and those that support those that keep the species going. Thank you for your contribution to humanity as you stated.

throwaway161112 10y ago

I had similar beliefs when I was in my 20s and now I have two children in my late 30s. We all have to row our own canoe. That being said. This is an interesting topic that has to have some academic research and/or modeling behind it. Anyone have some sources? What happens if our best minds do not reproduce? What is the expected outcome of Japan's population decline?

bluejekyll 10y ago

While I tend to agree with I him I did decide to have kids. And they're awesome, a lot of work, and completely all consuming of your time. That's why this statement from someone who opted not to have kids seems so disconnected: > You can also say, "Having children is selfish. If you don't have children, you can dedicate your time to something that the world really needs." Actually, I believe successful (and I suppose my success or lack of is probably still 13 years from proving out) parenting requires complete selflessness. An ability to look past your own desires and needs to focus on those of your kids. There isn't a better trial in life, than having to make the difficult decision about doing something for yourself, or something for your kids. Marriage is similar. When I explain being a parent to people, I make it clear that you will be giving up significant amounts of your own time and desires. So if your good with that, then when you have kids, try and be as present as possible for them to help them grow into decent humans.

crasp 10y ago

Disclaimer: I am a parent. Regardles here's my 2c: I can't speak for the places where this article was published but given this site is its only source this will mostly be read by people that are in general interested in programming or have some interest in open source software. I think we need some kind of future where these genes might be needed to actually help turn the tide on most of the problem with overpopulation, the environment and climate change. This will most likely not be read by people that do not care about programming or open source software or simply do not care about any of this stuff. They will still reproduce and make the problem bigger. I would say the people that DO care about all these things need to be well represented in the future as well if we want to see change in the future as well. I am not saying he makes no valid points but these points mostly miss their target audience and are read by the wrong group of people.

bluejekyll 10y ago
It doesn't necessarily need to be your own kids that you teach these skills to. There are lots of programs to which you can donate your time to help teach children, and we should all be doing that more. Yes, there is some amount of genetics that will not get represented, but I don't actually believe that the human genetic pool is so focused that we will actually miss out on some next evolutionary step.

darod 10y ago

While the overpopulation argument is debatable, the decision to have or not have kids is a personal one. While some believe reproduction is our prime directive as a life form, I would argue passing information to the next generation is our prime directive. Whether it's through DNA or a book, this is the way our species evolves each generation. On another note, I find it interesting that having been inflicted with cancer at 33 that I have friends who still encourage me to have kids. I don't think changing diapers between rounds of chemo would be a wise decision.

dingaling 10y ago
> Whether it's through DNA or a book, this is the way our species evolves each generation. That's a great point and although I am currently raising a toddler I really don't feel that I've 'contributed' to society or humanity in general at this point. Many colleagues talk about their hope that their kids will 'grow up to do something great' but that's abstract and wishy. My wife was very keen to have a child before she was too old to accept the risks, so we did so. But I'd much rather have put the time and money into research for a book that would propagate at least a little knowledge forward in time.

LisaDziuba 10y ago

If I told it to my mother, that would be the worst disappointment in her life. In our culture, you must be married and have children (before 25 y.o). Otherwise, you are not normal and everybody around (parents, friends, acquaintances) will ask you stupid questions: "when are planning to merry?" "when are planning to have children?" + long educational lecture on why it's so important. That's a disaster.

clinth 10y ago

I have a ton of respect for people who choose not to have children, for whatever reason. Good on them. I think the societal drive to marry and have children is bullshit, especially for women. You can be a fully-realized person without children. Having said that, it's not a bad choice to have children. This essay covers a lot of ground very quickly, but the part about effort distribution resonated with me and I disagree with it. Yes, career plus family are challenging, but I'm glad I have both. There's never 100% done with with anything, including parenting and work. I don't know a single person who has fully accomplished everything they want to do, no matter how singly focused they are. I don't know what 100% parenting would look like. Kids aren't sculpture which stop progressing when not being worked. They're people. Yes, as a parent you spend time with them, and thinking of them, but you're not failing when you're thinking of something else.

razzaj 10y ago

Sure, kids complicate things. They also have the unique attibute of being non-undoable. And life is surely much simpler without them. But aren't all enriching things in life complicated? Like love, starting a company, friendship, learning. I have kids, and i dont think of people who decide not to have any as "wrong". This is clearly a personal choice, but i can definitely say they are missing out on a great source of richness, and tons of joy.

Hydraulix989 10y ago

Can somebody please explain to me why this got flagged?