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This is textbook tribal protectionism. The result is usually more protectionism from all countries and the destruction of the WTO. Another poster clearly laid o

by pj_mukh 10y ago

This is textbook tribal protectionism. The result is usually more protectionism from all countries and the destruction of the WTO. Another poster clearly laid out the possible reactions from the Indian government (for example). Your tech companies are making MILLIONS in these other countries, learn how to spread that wealth more efficiently. The world has known only ONE model of peace (yes world peace, look at the metrics), and that is globalized trade, take that away and we'll be back at each other throats.

grzm 10y ago
"The world has known only ONE model of peace (yes world peace, look at the metrics), and that is globalized trade, take that away and we'll be back at each other throats." This seems ripe for a reference request. When has there been either globalized trade or a period of sustained world peace? I'm most definitely skeptical, and would happily be convinced otherwise.
- pj_mukh 10y ago
  Study[1] after study[2] has analyzed this. You wouldn't know it if you watched enough news, but you are currently living in a period of sustained world peace (unless you live in a localized regional conflict) and trade is fully globalized. In fact, most of the war-torn regions in the world are ones that are economically estranged. We don't think twice about bombing the shit out of Syria because..who cares, it won't affect us. But we dare not do so with China, they buy so many government bonds! The average citizen doesn't actively think about this, but I assure you your government is (even if unconsciously). [1] https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/matthew-o-jackson-can-trade-prevent-war https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/matthew-o-jackson-can-... [2] http://jpr.sagepub.com/content/38/4/445.abstract http://jpr.sagepub.com/content/38/4/445.abstract
  - grzm 10y ago
    Thanks for the links!
    - grzm 10y ago
      I see now what you were getting at with respect to the influence of trade and war. That makes a lot of sense to me. I was pushing back at the absolutism of your statement. I agree that the trend of world violence is downward and the trend of global trade is upward. I think statements like "The world has known only ONE model of peace" don't reflect the nuance of the claims made by your references. For example, the hypothesis of "The Impact of War on Trade: An Interrupted Times-Series Study" is "trade promotes peace". The Jackson paper[0] includes a stronger statement: "In the context of the alliances we have analyzed, trade motives are essential to avoiding wars and sustaining stable networks,", but all like all good science, acknowledges "in the context of the alliances we have analyzed". Like I said, the premises and findings of these papers make sense to me, and I don't find them surprising, but I don't think they support such an absolute statement. Thanks again for the links! I wouldn't have likely have come across them otherwise. Good stuff! [0]: http://www.pnas.org/content/112/50/15277 http://www.pnas.org/content/112/50/15277
biocomputation 10y ago
Are you using "textbook tribal protectionism" like it's supposed to be some kind of insult or like it's something I'm supposed to feel ashamed about? Because I'm not ashamed. Jobs are a bedrock social justice issue in the United States. H1-B creates( and will continue to create ) profoundly unjust outcomes for American workers. >> The world has known only ONE model of peace (yes world peace, look at the metrics), and that is globalized trade, take that away and we'll be back at each other throats. Social justice for all is a basic requirement for peace in all groups regardless of scale.
- pj_mukh 10y ago
  Education is a social justice issue. Employment is not. One is an equal opportunity, the other is an equal outcome (not a guarantee). Train and retrain your workforce as much as needed on the tax payers dime, but you are never guaranteed a job.
- serge2k 10y ago
  > Jobs are a bedrock social justice issue in the United States How many times are you going to repeat this? You should be wary of protectionism.

by pj_mukh 10y ago

grzm 10y ago

"The world has known only ONE model of peace (yes world peace, look at the metrics), and that is globalized trade, take that away and we'll be back at each other throats." This seems ripe for a reference request. When has there been either globalized trade or a period of sustained world peace? I'm most definitely skeptical, and would happily be convinced otherwise.

pj_mukh 10y ago
Study[1] after study[2] has analyzed this. You wouldn't know it if you watched enough news, but you are currently living in a period of sustained world peace (unless you live in a localized regional conflict) and trade is fully globalized. In fact, most of the war-torn regions in the world are ones that are economically estranged. We don't think twice about bombing the shit out of Syria because..who cares, it won't affect us. But we dare not do so with China, they buy so many government bonds! The average citizen doesn't actively think about this, but I assure you your government is (even if unconsciously). [1] https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/matthew-o-jackson-can-trade-prevent-war https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/matthew-o-jackson-can-... [2] http://jpr.sagepub.com/content/38/4/445.abstract http://jpr.sagepub.com/content/38/4/445.abstract
- grzm 10y ago
  Thanks for the links!
  - grzm 10y ago
    I see now what you were getting at with respect to the influence of trade and war. That makes a lot of sense to me. I was pushing back at the absolutism of your statement. I agree that the trend of world violence is downward and the trend of global trade is upward. I think statements like "The world has known only ONE model of peace" don't reflect the nuance of the claims made by your references. For example, the hypothesis of "The Impact of War on Trade: An Interrupted Times-Series Study" is "trade promotes peace". The Jackson paper[0] includes a stronger statement: "In the context of the alliances we have analyzed, trade motives are essential to avoiding wars and sustaining stable networks,", but all like all good science, acknowledges "in the context of the alliances we have analyzed". Like I said, the premises and findings of these papers make sense to me, and I don't find them surprising, but I don't think they support such an absolute statement. Thanks again for the links! I wouldn't have likely have come across them otherwise. Good stuff! [0]: http://www.pnas.org/content/112/50/15277 http://www.pnas.org/content/112/50/15277

biocomputation 10y ago

Are you using "textbook tribal protectionism" like it's supposed to be some kind of insult or like it's something I'm supposed to feel ashamed about? Because I'm not ashamed. Jobs are a bedrock social justice issue in the United States. H1-B creates( and will continue to create ) profoundly unjust outcomes for American workers. >> The world has known only ONE model of peace (yes world peace, look at the metrics), and that is globalized trade, take that away and we'll be back at each other throats. Social justice for all is a basic requirement for peace in all groups regardless of scale.

pj_mukh 10y ago
Education is a social justice issue. Employment is not. One is an equal opportunity, the other is an equal outcome (not a guarantee). Train and retrain your workforce as much as needed on the tax payers dime, but you are never guaranteed a job.
serge2k 10y ago
> Jobs are a bedrock social justice issue in the United States How many times are you going to repeat this? You should be wary of protectionism.