11 ms·

Finland plans to replace classic school subjects with broader “topics” (2015)

178 points by akbarnama 10y ago

mrtree 10y ago
This article is simply not true.
- tlack 10y ago
  Can you explain? I have many educators in my life and I'd love to share it, but not if it's BS.
  - asmala 10y ago
    The Finnish news sources I follow paint this as a pilot initiative trialed primarily in Helsinki, and even then limited to a few courses. A country-wide scrapping of subjects seems still a long way off. The following passage from The Independent article seems the closest to the truth: "Finnish schools are obliged to introduce a period of “phenomenon-based teaching” at least once a year. These projects can last several weeks. In Helsinki, they are pushing the reforms at a faster pace with schools encouraged to set aside two periods during the year for adopting the new approach. Ms Kyllonen’s blueprint, to be published later this month, envisages the reforms will be in place across all Finnish schools by 2020."
    - kettu228 10y ago
      Which source is this? There was a big change starting from this semester. It might not be as dramatic as the article says but it's still considered to be a huge change.
    - kettu228 10y ago
      Did some more research and it seems that the subjects are not gone but there will be more project based learning that combines multiple subjects. The changes are already implemented.
- kettu228 10y ago
  This article is partly true. The headline is not. The changes came into effect few months ago (planned since 2012). Major changes include: 1) Some topics are introduced earlier (like Swedish, our second language) 2) More topic based learning. Learn multiple subjects for example during a project. (So subjects still remain) 3) Change of roles. Teacher should be seen more of a guide and the student should be more active in how the learning should take place. 4) More IT. For example programming is introduced in first grade. 5) "Extensive learning". Learn about learning, thinking, communications, taking care of yourself, working, entrepreneurship, sustainable future etc. Source: I'm Finnish and checked from the official "Board of Education" site (in Finnish) http://www.oph.fi/saadokset_ja_ohjeet/opetussuunnitelmien_ja_tutkintojen_perusteet/perusopetus http://www.oph.fi/saadokset_ja_ohjeet/opetussuunnitelmien_ja... Edit: Subjects are not completely gone but there will be more topic based projects that combine multiple subjects
  - throwaway4891a 10y ago
    Ah thanks for the link and analysis. Also found these: http://www.oph.fi/english/current_issues/101/0/statistics_of_the_month_compulsory_instruction_time_in_finland_among_the_lowest_in_europe http://www.oph.fi/english/current_issues/101/0/statistics_of... https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_kindergarten https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_kindergarten
  - finid 10y ago
    For example programming is introduced in first grade. That, I think, is the best part.
michaelkeenan 10y ago
This article gets all its information on from this article from the Independent: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-schools-subjects-are-out-and-topics-are-in-as-country-reforms-its-education-system-10123911.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-schoo... I suggest changing the link to point to the Independent article (and also changing the exaggerated title to the more informative Independent headline).
sylvainkalache 10y ago
That's the future of education, we need to get rid of this centuries-old model where students are passively learning. Schools are acting as the gateway to knowledge like in the old days when you had to travel to libraries and amphitheater to listen to lectures because that was the only way to access knowledge! In the meantime, the Internet came up and anyone can access an infinite amount of information and knowledge. Workers need to be able to learn by themselves, be able to retrain and retool. Any good Software Engineer is already doing this, constantly learning new stuff to stay on top of their game, that will be true for any type of worker.
- 75j 10y ago
  Agreed! I'd like to see a wide variety of ever-improving open source curricula, and students given minimal structure in their day -- maybe two hours max of formal lecture in core subjects, three hours for socializing / lunch / exercise / play, and most importantly three plus hours of self-directed learning time. Teachers would act more as supervisors and check in frequently to give feedback and gauge their student's progress. Unfortunately American schools are moving in the opposite direction, with massive emphasis on teacher evaluations, discipline, standardized testing, and about 20 minutes daily of highly supervised and sanitized recess (source: twelve years attending public schools and one year more recently working in one).
  - soufron 10y ago
    Are you ready to pay for the teachers to be the interdisciplinary supervisors that you talk about?
    - 75j 10y ago
      Sure, and I'd love to pay teachers better too! But why does what I'm envisioning even necessitate an increased number of teachers? The teachers should tend toward being generalists, and part of the school's hiring process would be to attain a mixture of teachers whose skills cover the greatest breadth of subjects possible, but otherwise I don't see any major obstacles to implementing this sort of system. It would be simpler than the convoluted mess that exists now.
known 10y ago
I like http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-...
zerr 10y ago
Not sure. Subjects give you an ability to concentrate and achieve more (better grades) in subjects you like and spend less time on another set of subjects you're not interested (for the expense of grades).
dang 10y ago
We changed the URL from https://brightside.me/wonder-curiosities/finland-will-become-the-first-country-in-the-world-to-get-rid-of-all-school-subjects-259910/ https://brightside.me/wonder-curiosities/finland-will-become... to what appears to be a more substantive (and properly dated) article on the subject.
aaron695 10y ago
There's a theory Finland got to the top with the simple three Rs (Which is was doing more recently than many western systems) and is currently just screwing it up. Guess we'll see.
crisp 10y ago
A 25-year-old Finn here. Like kettu228 explained, those major changes took place a few months ago when the schools started again this fall. Along with these changes, some teachers have started to try new techniques in teaching such as removing all the tables from the class and replacing them with couches and beanbags [0]. Instead of the traditional (and frankly boring) ways of teaching, they try to cheer up pupils and make learning more fun. Some of the pupils are even able to participate in class planning. I wish these changes had been there when I was in elementary school. Personally, it really seems to be the right way to go, though only time shows how it will affect. I'd wanted to learn, discuss and debate more about current hot topics, learn (more) IT and be part of influencing what we are taught. [0] http://nyt.fi/a1305870531097 http://nyt.fi/a1305870531097 (Pardon me, the article is in Finnish but it proves the point)
- Shalle135 10y ago
  I myself went to a high school which functioned this way. We started the week in our groups for a 30 min meeting where we set the goals for the week. After that we studied what we wanted. There were workshops all day with english, math etc that you could go to if you had any questions. But mainly you sat with your friends in small groups and studied. And yes, you were alone responsible for when you took breaks etc. This way of studying were in my opinion much more effective. Sure I perhaps didn't put in as much time studying as people who went to traditional schools did. But once i studied I were much more focused and to be honest. When you sit in a class and the teacher ramps on about something that is of no interest to you, how much are you able to recollect? Also another positive side of it were that if I had it easy for some topics I could focus others which I had a hard time for. I remember that I didn't study either swedish or math at all in 6th and 7th grade.
  - dibstern 10y ago
    Out of curiosity, did any students from that school go to any of the top global universities? Like Oxbridge/Ivy League/Etc? I wonder how those students do in comparison. Also, as a kid who learned much better through class interaction with a teacher, your school would have been a nightmare for me, instead of doing so well in school I likely would have failed. Undiagnosed ADHD is terrible for self-driven learning.
dash2 10y ago
The problem here is in the first two words. The idea sounds interesting and maybe it will work. But why should it be tried at national level? Real progress would mean letting individual schools innovate. Imagine if the headline read "Finland plans to replace PCs with modern tablets". That would be crazy, right? Computer purchasing decisions should not be enforced at national level. Why is education different?
- naasking 10y ago
  > But why should it be tried at national level? Real progress would mean letting individual schools innovate. Because then the new schools can be discriminated against, thus skewing the data on the effectiveness of this approach. No such problem if everyone has the same background.
- xherberta 10y ago
  They are letting schools innovate. That was one of the main points of the article, that in Finland, local districts enjoy plenty of autonomy in curriculum decisions.
joggery 10y ago
Changing curriculums is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, I'm afraid. Future generations will wonder how we could be so heartless as to coop children up in classrooms and require them to study random subjects. The correct approach to maximising learning is as follows. Help children to do more of what they like and try to find things they'll like even better. This includes all video games, btw.
gens 10y ago
Am i the only one that sees the massive problems with this ? >But with the new basic school reform all children will also learn via periods looking at broader topics, such as the European Union, community and climate change, or 100 years of Finland’s independence ... >The concept of “phenomenon-based” teaching – a move away from “subjects” and towards inter-disciplinary topics – will have a central place in the new NCF. >The answer is that educators in Finland think, quite correctly, that schools should teach what young people need in their lives rather than try to bring national test scores back to where they were. I'm all for teaching with current-time examples, but making them the central point ? Teaching children "what they need in their lives" (the what) instead of the how ? Well they have money so i guess a general education is not that important for them.
- xherberta 10y ago
  Real life consists of interdisciplinary subjects and requires interdisciplinary learning. What's the value of picking things apart and studying "science" and "math" and "literature" in isolation? In the world around us, these subjects are intricately tangled together. Awareness of the relationships between these subjects makes the world interesting and is one mark of a well-educated person. Isn't it impressive and fascinating when someone can speak on the co-evolution of math and science, or the impact of literature on history? In my experience, interdisciplinary study offers an abundance of opportunities to get at "the how," whereas single-subject study prioritizes "the what."
  - gens 10y ago
    Literature has not much to do with science, but a bit with history (depends though on if you count social sciences as science, but even then art is art). Math is a pure.. topic, although it is very much used in all other education. Note that in my country there is no "science" topic, but physics, biology, geology, etc. > Isn't it impressive and fascinating when someone can speak on the co-evolution of math and science, or the impact of literature on history? Most certainly, but that is not what the linked article suggests will happen. The article is a bit more on the pragmatic side (the current world state). I, myself, would very much love for a physics teacher to talk about how completely new mathematics was invented when Newton or Maxwell were faced with the problem of expressing physics in mathematics (we did for Newton in my school, as i'm sure many other schools do the same for many other similar examples). Physics and math are very much related, but do you abolish pure mathematics in favor of only biased topics (towards spacial and forces in the context of physics, statistics in the context of some social topic, and such)? When you look at it, how many things are actually interdisciplinary ? Sure many things are (arguably everything), but how many do you think need their own.. class ? Climate change is covered by geology. Community (whatever that means) i didn't cover much in school because i went to a technical school, but i'm sure my sister did (although i remember that there was, but i don't remember what topic it was under). Things were never pure to begin with, but why go into the other extreme ? I'm sorry. But even though i think that some things in education should be changed, this change is, to me, just moronic. (if it is as the article says, that is)

178 points by akbarnama 10y ago

mrtree 10y ago

This article is simply not true.

tlack 10y ago
Can you explain? I have many educators in my life and I'd love to share it, but not if it's BS.
- asmala 10y ago
  The Finnish news sources I follow paint this as a pilot initiative trialed primarily in Helsinki, and even then limited to a few courses. A country-wide scrapping of subjects seems still a long way off. The following passage from The Independent article seems the closest to the truth: "Finnish schools are obliged to introduce a period of “phenomenon-based teaching” at least once a year. These projects can last several weeks. In Helsinki, they are pushing the reforms at a faster pace with schools encouraged to set aside two periods during the year for adopting the new approach. Ms Kyllonen’s blueprint, to be published later this month, envisages the reforms will be in place across all Finnish schools by 2020."
  - kettu228 10y ago
    Which source is this? There was a big change starting from this semester. It might not be as dramatic as the article says but it's still considered to be a huge change.
  - kettu228 10y ago
    Did some more research and it seems that the subjects are not gone but there will be more project based learning that combines multiple subjects. The changes are already implemented.
kettu228 10y ago
This article is partly true. The headline is not. The changes came into effect few months ago (planned since 2012). Major changes include: 1) Some topics are introduced earlier (like Swedish, our second language) 2) More topic based learning. Learn multiple subjects for example during a project. (So subjects still remain) 3) Change of roles. Teacher should be seen more of a guide and the student should be more active in how the learning should take place. 4) More IT. For example programming is introduced in first grade. 5) "Extensive learning". Learn about learning, thinking, communications, taking care of yourself, working, entrepreneurship, sustainable future etc. Source: I'm Finnish and checked from the official "Board of Education" site (in Finnish) http://www.oph.fi/saadokset_ja_ohjeet/opetussuunnitelmien_ja_tutkintojen_perusteet/perusopetus http://www.oph.fi/saadokset_ja_ohjeet/opetussuunnitelmien_ja... Edit: Subjects are not completely gone but there will be more topic based projects that combine multiple subjects
- throwaway4891a 10y ago
  Ah thanks for the link and analysis. Also found these: http://www.oph.fi/english/current_issues/101/0/statistics_of_the_month_compulsory_instruction_time_in_finland_among_the_lowest_in_europe http://www.oph.fi/english/current_issues/101/0/statistics_of... https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_kindergarten https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_kindergarten
- finid 10y ago
  For example programming is introduced in first grade. That, I think, is the best part.

michaelkeenan 10y ago

This article gets all its information on from this article from the Independent: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-schools-subjects-are-out-and-topics-are-in-as-country-reforms-its-education-system-10123911.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-schoo... I suggest changing the link to point to the Independent article (and also changing the exaggerated title to the more informative Independent headline).

sylvainkalache 10y ago

That's the future of education, we need to get rid of this centuries-old model where students are passively learning. Schools are acting as the gateway to knowledge like in the old days when you had to travel to libraries and amphitheater to listen to lectures because that was the only way to access knowledge! In the meantime, the Internet came up and anyone can access an infinite amount of information and knowledge. Workers need to be able to learn by themselves, be able to retrain and retool. Any good Software Engineer is already doing this, constantly learning new stuff to stay on top of their game, that will be true for any type of worker.

75j 10y ago
Agreed! I'd like to see a wide variety of ever-improving open source curricula, and students given minimal structure in their day -- maybe two hours max of formal lecture in core subjects, three hours for socializing / lunch / exercise / play, and most importantly three plus hours of self-directed learning time. Teachers would act more as supervisors and check in frequently to give feedback and gauge their student's progress. Unfortunately American schools are moving in the opposite direction, with massive emphasis on teacher evaluations, discipline, standardized testing, and about 20 minutes daily of highly supervised and sanitized recess (source: twelve years attending public schools and one year more recently working in one).
- soufron 10y ago
  Are you ready to pay for the teachers to be the interdisciplinary supervisors that you talk about?
  - 75j 10y ago
    Sure, and I'd love to pay teachers better too! But why does what I'm envisioning even necessitate an increased number of teachers? The teachers should tend toward being generalists, and part of the school's hiring process would be to attain a mixture of teachers whose skills cover the greatest breadth of subjects possible, but otherwise I don't see any major obstacles to implementing this sort of system. It would be simpler than the convoluted mess that exists now.

known 10y ago

I like http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-...

zerr 10y ago

Not sure. Subjects give you an ability to concentrate and achieve more (better grades) in subjects you like and spend less time on another set of subjects you're not interested (for the expense of grades).

dang 10y ago

We changed the URL from https://brightside.me/wonder-curiosities/finland-will-become-the-first-country-in-the-world-to-get-rid-of-all-school-subjects-259910/ https://brightside.me/wonder-curiosities/finland-will-become... to what appears to be a more substantive (and properly dated) article on the subject.

aaron695 10y ago

There's a theory Finland got to the top with the simple three Rs (Which is was doing more recently than many western systems) and is currently just screwing it up. Guess we'll see.

crisp 10y ago

A 25-year-old Finn here. Like kettu228 explained, those major changes took place a few months ago when the schools started again this fall. Along with these changes, some teachers have started to try new techniques in teaching such as removing all the tables from the class and replacing them with couches and beanbags [0]. Instead of the traditional (and frankly boring) ways of teaching, they try to cheer up pupils and make learning more fun. Some of the pupils are even able to participate in class planning. I wish these changes had been there when I was in elementary school. Personally, it really seems to be the right way to go, though only time shows how it will affect. I'd wanted to learn, discuss and debate more about current hot topics, learn (more) IT and be part of influencing what we are taught. [0] http://nyt.fi/a1305870531097 http://nyt.fi/a1305870531097 (Pardon me, the article is in Finnish but it proves the point)

Shalle135 10y ago
I myself went to a high school which functioned this way. We started the week in our groups for a 30 min meeting where we set the goals for the week. After that we studied what we wanted. There were workshops all day with english, math etc that you could go to if you had any questions. But mainly you sat with your friends in small groups and studied. And yes, you were alone responsible for when you took breaks etc. This way of studying were in my opinion much more effective. Sure I perhaps didn't put in as much time studying as people who went to traditional schools did. But once i studied I were much more focused and to be honest. When you sit in a class and the teacher ramps on about something that is of no interest to you, how much are you able to recollect? Also another positive side of it were that if I had it easy for some topics I could focus others which I had a hard time for. I remember that I didn't study either swedish or math at all in 6th and 7th grade.
- dibstern 10y ago
  Out of curiosity, did any students from that school go to any of the top global universities? Like Oxbridge/Ivy League/Etc? I wonder how those students do in comparison. Also, as a kid who learned much better through class interaction with a teacher, your school would have been a nightmare for me, instead of doing so well in school I likely would have failed. Undiagnosed ADHD is terrible for self-driven learning.

dash2 10y ago

The problem here is in the first two words. The idea sounds interesting and maybe it will work. But why should it be tried at national level? Real progress would mean letting individual schools innovate. Imagine if the headline read "Finland plans to replace PCs with modern tablets". That would be crazy, right? Computer purchasing decisions should not be enforced at national level. Why is education different?

naasking 10y ago
> But why should it be tried at national level? Real progress would mean letting individual schools innovate. Because then the new schools can be discriminated against, thus skewing the data on the effectiveness of this approach. No such problem if everyone has the same background.
xherberta 10y ago
They are letting schools innovate. That was one of the main points of the article, that in Finland, local districts enjoy plenty of autonomy in curriculum decisions.

joggery 10y ago

Changing curriculums is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, I'm afraid. Future generations will wonder how we could be so heartless as to coop children up in classrooms and require them to study random subjects. The correct approach to maximising learning is as follows. Help children to do more of what they like and try to find things they'll like even better. This includes all video games, btw.

gens 10y ago

Am i the only one that sees the massive problems with this ? >But with the new basic school reform all children will also learn via periods looking at broader topics, such as the European Union, community and climate change, or 100 years of Finland’s independence ... >The concept of “phenomenon-based” teaching – a move away from “subjects” and towards inter-disciplinary topics – will have a central place in the new NCF. >The answer is that educators in Finland think, quite correctly, that schools should teach what young people need in their lives rather than try to bring national test scores back to where they were. I'm all for teaching with current-time examples, but making them the central point ? Teaching children "what they need in their lives" (the what) instead of the how ? Well they have money so i guess a general education is not that important for them.

xherberta 10y ago
Real life consists of interdisciplinary subjects and requires interdisciplinary learning. What's the value of picking things apart and studying "science" and "math" and "literature" in isolation? In the world around us, these subjects are intricately tangled together. Awareness of the relationships between these subjects makes the world interesting and is one mark of a well-educated person. Isn't it impressive and fascinating when someone can speak on the co-evolution of math and science, or the impact of literature on history? In my experience, interdisciplinary study offers an abundance of opportunities to get at "the how," whereas single-subject study prioritizes "the what."
- gens 10y ago
  Literature has not much to do with science, but a bit with history (depends though on if you count social sciences as science, but even then art is art). Math is a pure.. topic, although it is very much used in all other education. Note that in my country there is no "science" topic, but physics, biology, geology, etc. > Isn't it impressive and fascinating when someone can speak on the co-evolution of math and science, or the impact of literature on history? Most certainly, but that is not what the linked article suggests will happen. The article is a bit more on the pragmatic side (the current world state). I, myself, would very much love for a physics teacher to talk about how completely new mathematics was invented when Newton or Maxwell were faced with the problem of expressing physics in mathematics (we did for Newton in my school, as i'm sure many other schools do the same for many other similar examples). Physics and math are very much related, but do you abolish pure mathematics in favor of only biased topics (towards spacial and forces in the context of physics, statistics in the context of some social topic, and such)? When you look at it, how many things are actually interdisciplinary ? Sure many things are (arguably everything), but how many do you think need their own.. class ? Climate change is covered by geology. Community (whatever that means) i didn't cover much in school because i went to a technical school, but i'm sure my sister did (although i remember that there was, but i don't remember what topic it was under). Things were never pure to begin with, but why go into the other extreme ? I'm sorry. But even though i think that some things in education should be changed, this change is, to me, just moronic. (if it is as the article says, that is)