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Trade deals and transparency unfortunately don't go well together. Trade deals are negotiations — the government can't just decide what to do, since they're dea

Trade deals and transparency unfortunately don't go well together. Trade deals are negotiations — the government can't just decide what to do, since they're dealing with other governments. There needs to be a give and take. If negotiated in public it is way too easy for carefully balanced deals to collapse in the face of opposition from small subgroups even if the net impact is moderately good for lots of people. The flip side is that it is not great that this results in influential industry groups having way too much power. Not sure how to resolve this.

walterbell 10y ago
There are many points on the spectrum between fully public and fully private, including compartmentalization. TPP took an extreme position, blocking even members of Congress from taking notes. At a minimum, elected representatives of citizens need access to draft documents, and the ability to include trade policy experts on their staff.
mixedCase 10y ago
>The flip side is that it is not great that this results in influential industry groups having way too much power. Not sure how to resolve this. Don't make multinational all-encompasing trade deals. If you want freer trade, the best way to do it is to make small agreements on a country-by-country basis to tear down some protectionist policies each party has against the other. This allows you to pick and choose the deals the population wants.
- walterbell 10y ago
  Yes, e.g. Vietnam has established bi-lateral trade agreements with several of the TPP participants.
- eru 10y ago
  If you want free trade, the best way to go about it is to just lower your own barriers to trade: just because other countries are banging their heads against the wall doesn't mean we should do so, too. No negotiation required. The classical parable uses the more topical `if that other country was putting rubble in all their harbours, would we do so too? If not, why does it make a difference if their barriers physical or political?'
  - mixedCase 10y ago
    > If you want free trade, the best way to go about it is to just lower your own barriers to trade: just because other countries are banging their heads against the wall doesn't mean we should do so, too. Are you saying protectionist policies don't work? Because your idea would do nothing but hurt your own country by putting you at a disadvantage.
    - eru 10y ago
      Protectionist policies are as a whole bad for the country enacting them. (But they can benefit certain special interests.) This is basically the least controversial and most orthodox position in the history of all of economics. Basically all economists agree with this one, even if they disagree on a lot of other things.

walterbell 10y ago

There are many points on the spectrum between fully public and fully private, including compartmentalization. TPP took an extreme position, blocking even members of Congress from taking notes. At a minimum, elected representatives of citizens need access to draft documents, and the ability to include trade policy experts on their staff.

mixedCase 10y ago

>The flip side is that it is not great that this results in influential industry groups having way too much power. Not sure how to resolve this. Don't make multinational all-encompasing trade deals. If you want freer trade, the best way to do it is to make small agreements on a country-by-country basis to tear down some protectionist policies each party has against the other. This allows you to pick and choose the deals the population wants.

walterbell 10y ago
Yes, e.g. Vietnam has established bi-lateral trade agreements with several of the TPP participants.
eru 10y ago
If you want free trade, the best way to go about it is to just lower your own barriers to trade: just because other countries are banging their heads against the wall doesn't mean we should do so, too. No negotiation required. The classical parable uses the more topical `if that other country was putting rubble in all their harbours, would we do so too? If not, why does it make a difference if their barriers physical or political?'
- mixedCase 10y ago
  > If you want free trade, the best way to go about it is to just lower your own barriers to trade: just because other countries are banging their heads against the wall doesn't mean we should do so, too. Are you saying protectionist policies don't work? Because your idea would do nothing but hurt your own country by putting you at a disadvantage.
  - eru 10y ago
    Protectionist policies are as a whole bad for the country enacting them. (But they can benefit certain special interests.) This is basically the least controversial and most orthodox position in the history of all of economics. Basically all economists agree with this one, even if they disagree on a lot of other things.