4 ms·

Could California Survive as a Separate Country?

23 points by electic 10y ago

Justin_K 10y ago
If we seceded and lost all of the benefits from being a part of the USA, we'd be quickly absorbed as a colony of China or Russia. That and we'd need a lot of desalination plants. And a fully loaded military.
- zepto 10y ago
  How would we be absorbed be China or Russia? You think they'd send soldiers?
- desas 10y ago
  The USA wouldn't stand for Germany or France to be unwillingly taken over by Russia or China. They're not going to allow a foothold in their own backyard.
- c3534l 10y ago
  If Oregon and Washington joined they'd control the west coast which would be extremely valuable. Also, California pays more in taxes than it receives in aid for things like building national highways, funding schools, military bases, etc. I'm just playing devil's advocate. None of that would justify having separate currencies, adding border controls, and all that jazz. And without California and it's massive amounts of liberal electoral votes, I shudder to think what would happen American politics. I understand politics have become so divisive that many people are feeling alienated from their own country. But this is a childish idea.
  - tropo 10y ago
    California already has separate border controls. Drive from Nevada into California to see. California asks all sorts of questions about plants and pests.
    - Justin_K 10y ago
      I've done the drive many times and this doesn't exist, except when you leave lakes and they're looking for mussels. Am I missing something?
      - tropo 10y ago
        I last did that drive about 4 years ago, coming in just south of Lake Tahoe, and they did stop me. They were too cheap/polite to tear the car apart looking for stuff, as expected. Actually, they pretty much waved me through as soon as they saw California plates and heard that I had only left California briefly. Back in the day, they would dig through your stuff a bit. It was still pretty symbolic though. They sure wouldn't find egg cases stuck to your shock absorbers. It's mostly to protect the agriculture industry from disease and pests. I suppose it's also about other invasive species as well.
- yongjik 10y ago
  More likely California will be quickly (re-)absorbed as a colony of USA. Why not? Extremely close, easy to defend (from the point of USA), close cultural and economical ties. All the benefits of being a banana state with no pesky representation!
  - mbfg 10y ago
    i think more likely the US would impose it's will on CA and not allow it.
    - techdragon 10y ago
      I think the fundamental issue here is that some people think the USA is already imposing its will upon California to a level which a percentage of people deem "too far".
      - tropo 10y ago
        The rest of the country normally feels that way about California. Because of this, there is some serious California hatred out here. It goes beyond regular politics too. We are constantly reminded of how everything is known to the state of California to cause cancer.
      - gozur88 10y ago
        Of all the states that can reasonably complain about the rest of the country "imposing its will", California must be near the very bottom.
- tiredwired 10y ago
  No risk of Mexico invading I guess.
martythemaniak 10y ago
That's kind of a silly question. Basically any reasonably-defined geographical and cultural region with more than about 10 million residents can survive as a separate country. California certainly qualifies. The question with all separatist movements (Scottish, Quebecois, Catalan, etc) is whether the costs of the act of separating are going to be worth the immense hassle. Britain is trying to go through a something similar today and they're finding that the nitty-gritty of it seem to be more challenging and complex than the simple campaign promises. Belgium may actually be, inadvertently, the model for how modern nation states do separation. Continuously devolve more and more power to local governments until the central government sort of atrophies and it hardly matters whether you're in or out.
dctoedt 10y ago
Seems to me the question of secession was definitively settled in 1865.
- PhantomGremlin 10y ago
  That's a widely held opinion. A few years ago Antonin Scalia said, more or less: "we settled that question 150 years ago". So yeah, this is silly.
zw123456 10y ago
Maybe California, Oregon and Washington could split off as an independent country. I would have a large enough economy population and other things needed to be viable. If it is put to a vote via initiative it is not out of the realm of possibility.
didgeoridoo 10y ago
Who knew California was so full of states-rights, local-over-central control, small-r republicans?? Having a bit of trouble processing the dissonance though; the exact same individuals calling for secession are those who consistently vote to concentrate power in DC. Maybe instead of going to all the trouble to secede, they could just seek a return to a limited federal government...

23 points by electic 10y ago

If we seceded and lost all of the benefits from being a part of the USA, we'd be quickly absorbed as a colony of China or Russia. That and we'd need a lot of desalination plants. And a fully loaded military.

zepto 10y ago
How would we be absorbed be China or Russia? You think they'd send soldiers?
desas 10y ago
The USA wouldn't stand for Germany or France to be unwillingly taken over by Russia or China. They're not going to allow a foothold in their own backyard.
c3534l 10y ago
If Oregon and Washington joined they'd control the west coast which would be extremely valuable. Also, California pays more in taxes than it receives in aid for things like building national highways, funding schools, military bases, etc. I'm just playing devil's advocate. None of that would justify having separate currencies, adding border controls, and all that jazz. And without California and it's massive amounts of liberal electoral votes, I shudder to think what would happen American politics. I understand politics have become so divisive that many people are feeling alienated from their own country. But this is a childish idea.
- tropo 10y ago
  California already has separate border controls. Drive from Nevada into California to see. California asks all sorts of questions about plants and pests.
  - Justin_K 10y ago
    I've done the drive many times and this doesn't exist, except when you leave lakes and they're looking for mussels. Am I missing something?
    - tropo 10y ago
      I last did that drive about 4 years ago, coming in just south of Lake Tahoe, and they did stop me. They were too cheap/polite to tear the car apart looking for stuff, as expected. Actually, they pretty much waved me through as soon as they saw California plates and heard that I had only left California briefly. Back in the day, they would dig through your stuff a bit. It was still pretty symbolic though. They sure wouldn't find egg cases stuck to your shock absorbers. It's mostly to protect the agriculture industry from disease and pests. I suppose it's also about other invasive species as well.
yongjik 10y ago
More likely California will be quickly (re-)absorbed as a colony of USA. Why not? Extremely close, easy to defend (from the point of USA), close cultural and economical ties. All the benefits of being a banana state with no pesky representation!
- mbfg 10y ago
  i think more likely the US would impose it's will on CA and not allow it.
  - techdragon 10y ago
    I think the fundamental issue here is that some people think the USA is already imposing its will upon California to a level which a percentage of people deem "too far".
    - tropo 10y ago
      The rest of the country normally feels that way about California. Because of this, there is some serious California hatred out here. It goes beyond regular politics too. We are constantly reminded of how everything is known to the state of California to cause cancer.
    - gozur88 10y ago
      Of all the states that can reasonably complain about the rest of the country "imposing its will", California must be near the very bottom.
tiredwired 10y ago
No risk of Mexico invading I guess.

martythemaniak 10y ago

That's kind of a silly question. Basically any reasonably-defined geographical and cultural region with more than about 10 million residents can survive as a separate country. California certainly qualifies. The question with all separatist movements (Scottish, Quebecois, Catalan, etc) is whether the costs of the act of separating are going to be worth the immense hassle. Britain is trying to go through a something similar today and they're finding that the nitty-gritty of it seem to be more challenging and complex than the simple campaign promises. Belgium may actually be, inadvertently, the model for how modern nation states do separation. Continuously devolve more and more power to local governments until the central government sort of atrophies and it hardly matters whether you're in or out.

dctoedt 10y ago

Seems to me the question of secession was definitively settled in 1865.

PhantomGremlin 10y ago
That's a widely held opinion. A few years ago Antonin Scalia said, more or less: "we settled that question 150 years ago". So yeah, this is silly.

zw123456 10y ago

Maybe California, Oregon and Washington could split off as an independent country. I would have a large enough economy population and other things needed to be viable. If it is put to a vote via initiative it is not out of the realm of possibility.

didgeoridoo 10y ago

Who knew California was so full of states-rights, local-over-central control, small-r republicans?? Having a bit of trouble processing the dissonance though; the exact same individuals calling for secession are those who consistently vote to concentrate power in DC. Maybe instead of going to all the trouble to secede, they could just seek a return to a limited federal government...