5 ms·

Going off on a bit of a tangent, it's interesting to think about how 100 odd years ago if your heart stopped, you were declared dead. Then we got defibrillators

by asib 10y ago

Going off on a bit of a tangent, it's interesting to think about how 100 odd years ago if your heart stopped, you were declared dead. Then we got defibrillators and CPR, etc. and suddenly if your heart stopped you could still be resuscitated. Further, nowadays, if you have a heart attack and no one makes an effort to resuscitate you, and there's someone who knows how to nearby, most people would argue that that person has forgone a moral obligation. This is one of the arguments made for cryonics[0], in two ways. If in the future it's possible that we'll be able to revive a cryopreserved body, then you can't really consider someone dead if they're cryopreserved within a certain timeframe after their heart stops (just as today you can't consider someone dead within the ~5 minutes after their heart stops, because of CPR, etc). What's more, the people of the future will have a moral obligation to revive cryopreserved bodies, because not doing so would be the equivalent of not attempting CPR on someone who just had a heart attack. This is the response given when someone asks why anyone in the future would be bothered to go through the hassle of reviving cryopreserved bodies. Food for thought. [0]: https://www.alcor.org/FAQs/faq01.html#dead https://www.alcor.org/FAQs/faq01.html#dead

astrodust 10y ago
Cyronics are a waste of money, it's junk and a way to sponge money out of the too-rich-too-vain crowd. The number of animals that can survive being frozen are pretty slim, and those that can survive being frozen for an indefinite period of time are almost zero. What could work is developing some kind of human version of torpor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpor), slowing down biological processes to a crawl, which would not only help with space travel but could buy people enough time for medical treatments to mature to the point of being feasible. It has the advantage of being fairly common in the mammal world, so genetically it's a lot closer than, say, what frogs do to survive being frozen. You can't buy decades, but you can buy five to ten years, and for some people that would be all the difference they need.
- Houshalter 10y ago
  Cryonics could be made pretty cheap if lots more people signed up. It's only expensive because it's an extremely niche market. It's really a tragedy that cryonics isn't the default option. Even if you think it's unlikely to work, even a small chance at saving so many lives is worth it. Cryonics almost certainly works. They use chemicals which prevent the formation of ice crystals. Which is like 90% of the reason most animals can't survive being frozen. They've demonstrated certain organs can be revived from cryopreservation - a rabbit kidney was frozen and then successfully revived. Which is incredible. And even if we don't have the technology to revive everything today, I do believe it will be possible in the future. The point of cryopreservation is that everything is preserved completely. The information in your brain - what makes you you, is preserved.
  - astrodust 10y ago
    Wake me up when they've successfully thawed an otherwise healthy person after a period of a year. Until then I'm going to insist it's a cash grab because it's completely unproven.
    - Houshalter 10y ago
      What you ask for is impossible and you know it. No one has ever claimed that we will have the tech to revive a human being in a year. That is impossible with current technology. All I am saying is that it's very likely to be possible with future technology. Unless you are claiming that technology is going to magically stop advancing right now in 2016, it's a good idea to get cryopreserved.
- jcoffland 10y ago
  > You can't buy decades, but you can buy five to ten years, and for some people that would be all the difference they need. I like the idea but this seems highly impractical. "Some people," in this case likely means a tiny faction of a percent. I.e. those who nearly die of a disease for which a cure is less than a decade away. The remaining majority are huge drains on resources. It hardly seems ethical when so many living people go with out basic medical care.
  - astrodust 10y ago
    It's actually a lot of people. The most common diseases are genetic in nature, and there's so many of them in the long tail that the combined effect of these is staggering. It won't be long before they've mapped out the genome to the point where tools like CRISPR allow them to swap out broken genes or re-enable genes that were erroneously disabled. When that happens there's going to be literally thousands and thousands of diseases that go from a death sentence to an inconvenience. Some conditions aren't immediately fatal, but you are living on borrowed time, and those people might benefit by being put in a form of suspended animation. Those faced with the choice between toughing it out to a death that's going to be undignified and painful and, where applicable, some kind of assisted suicide could have a third choice: Sleep it out and hope it works. If it doesn't, you still have the other options, but the decay could be slowed down enough you've bought some time. If done right, torpor or something like it would be very inexpensive. You'd just need someone to monitor vital signs, no big deal, as there's no expensive cryogenic equipment involved. Just a cozy place to rest that's kept at a comfortable temperature and fresh air. I can imagine this is like the most chill "coffin hotel" you've ever been in since people only wake up once every few months.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

by asib 10y ago

astrodust 10y ago

Cyronics are a waste of money, it's junk and a way to sponge money out of the too-rich-too-vain crowd. The number of animals that can survive being frozen are pretty slim, and those that can survive being frozen for an indefinite period of time are almost zero. What could work is developing some kind of human version of torpor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpor), slowing down biological processes to a crawl, which would not only help with space travel but could buy people enough time for medical treatments to mature to the point of being feasible. It has the advantage of being fairly common in the mammal world, so genetically it's a lot closer than, say, what frogs do to survive being frozen. You can't buy decades, but you can buy five to ten years, and for some people that would be all the difference they need.

Houshalter 10y ago
Cryonics could be made pretty cheap if lots more people signed up. It's only expensive because it's an extremely niche market. It's really a tragedy that cryonics isn't the default option. Even if you think it's unlikely to work, even a small chance at saving so many lives is worth it. Cryonics almost certainly works. They use chemicals which prevent the formation of ice crystals. Which is like 90% of the reason most animals can't survive being frozen. They've demonstrated certain organs can be revived from cryopreservation - a rabbit kidney was frozen and then successfully revived. Which is incredible. And even if we don't have the technology to revive everything today, I do believe it will be possible in the future. The point of cryopreservation is that everything is preserved completely. The information in your brain - what makes you you, is preserved.
- astrodust 10y ago
  Wake me up when they've successfully thawed an otherwise healthy person after a period of a year. Until then I'm going to insist it's a cash grab because it's completely unproven.
  - Houshalter 10y ago
    What you ask for is impossible and you know it. No one has ever claimed that we will have the tech to revive a human being in a year. That is impossible with current technology. All I am saying is that it's very likely to be possible with future technology. Unless you are claiming that technology is going to magically stop advancing right now in 2016, it's a good idea to get cryopreserved.
jcoffland 10y ago
> You can't buy decades, but you can buy five to ten years, and for some people that would be all the difference they need. I like the idea but this seems highly impractical. "Some people," in this case likely means a tiny faction of a percent. I.e. those who nearly die of a disease for which a cure is less than a decade away. The remaining majority are huge drains on resources. It hardly seems ethical when so many living people go with out basic medical care.
- astrodust 10y ago
  It's actually a lot of people. The most common diseases are genetic in nature, and there's so many of them in the long tail that the combined effect of these is staggering. It won't be long before they've mapped out the genome to the point where tools like CRISPR allow them to swap out broken genes or re-enable genes that were erroneously disabled. When that happens there's going to be literally thousands and thousands of diseases that go from a death sentence to an inconvenience. Some conditions aren't immediately fatal, but you are living on borrowed time, and those people might benefit by being put in a form of suspended animation. Those faced with the choice between toughing it out to a death that's going to be undignified and painful and, where applicable, some kind of assisted suicide could have a third choice: Sleep it out and hope it works. If it doesn't, you still have the other options, but the decay could be slowed down enough you've bought some time. If done right, torpor or something like it would be very inexpensive. You'd just need someone to monitor vital signs, no big deal, as there's no expensive cryogenic equipment involved. Just a cozy place to rest that's kept at a comfortable temperature and fresh air. I can imagine this is like the most chill "coffin hotel" you've ever been in since people only wake up once every few months.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]