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Safe spaces as I've seen them implemented are exclusionary and discriminatory. A women-only safe space is sexist, as the implied "safety" of not allowing men i

by Zikes 10y ago

Safe spaces as I've seen them implemented are exclusionary and discriminatory. A women-only safe space is sexist, as the implied "safety" of not allowing men implies that men are inherently unsafe. A POC-only safe space is racist, as the implied "safety" of not allowing whites implies that whites are inherently unsafe. If anyone were to even suggest the opposite implementation, a men-only or whites-only "safe space", then the discriminatory nature is immediately apparent and everyone rallies to shut down the idea before it ever reaches implementation. Edit: Oops, I've invaded HN's safe space. Disagree with me all you like, but as we learned earlier this week it's not the votes that matter. Tell me why I'm wrong, I'm genuinely interested in hearing your opinion.

Swizec 10y ago
Remember, if you are a white male it is fundamentally impossible for you to experience hardship. Only people of color and women ever have problems in life. You know why there are no activist/support groups for "fresh off boat" immigrants? They're too busy actively and constructively improving their lives. Fundamentally safe spaces and related are a thing of privilege. If you have time to think about that, you're part of the privileged group. I could be wrong. Maybe I've just never come across a support group organized by and for poor people, or by and for immigrants. Are there any?
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  The poor peoples campaign was one. They demanded an economic bill of rights. Martin Luther King was the founder of it, he believed that poverty the main issue in America at that time. A month later he was assassinated and the whole thing fell apart. "The Poor People’s Campaign was motivated by a desire for economic justice: the idea that all people should have what they need to live. King and the SCLC shifted their focus to these issues after observing that gains in civil rights had not improved the material conditions of life for many African Americans. The Poor People’s Campaign was a multiracial effort—including African-Americans, whites, Mexican-Americans, Puerto Ricans, and Native Americans—aimed at alleviating poverty regardless of race." His assassination (by government or business interests) is the only conspiracy I subscribe to. I believe we would live in a different world if he had a few more years on this earth.
  - Swizec 10y ago
    I had no idea! Thanks! This looks interesting to look into. Too bad it's a was. Is there anything like it today?
    - cmdrfred 10y ago
      Not that I'm aware of. I watched Occupy Wall Street for a while and it fragmented into a million subgroups without a leader. It seems you really need a Gandhi or MLK type to keep movements on track.
mLuby 10y ago
The US Presidency is such a "men-only (almost) whites-only" safe space, as are most circles of power in this country.
- prodigal_erik 10y ago
  Everyone routinely despises the president and blames him for things far outside his power. 9% of them have been murdered. If that's safety, I'll pass.
- Zikes 10y ago
  Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5 of the Constitution > No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. I don't see anything there about genitalia or skin color. But since it's a "safe space" I think I'll pop in there and relax for a bit. It's time I escape this mediocrity and claim the power of my white male birthright.
  - Zikes 10y ago
    I apologize for the snark at the end. I am easily goaded.
fnovd 10y ago
That's a pretty one-sided view of safe spaces. I don't think "safe spaces" are meant to be so radically exclusionary, though it's obvious why they can end up that way. It's to give people an opportunity to talk about the impact of a thing without needing to prove that thing exists in the first place. It's like climate scientists not inviting deniers to their conference: they want to focus on the implications of climate change, not debate the existence of climate change itself. I think there are plenty of reasonable safe spaces that accomplish the thing they were meant to do without resorting to blanket exclusions. The answer to one extreme is usually not the other.

by Zikes 10y ago

Swizec 10y ago

Remember, if you are a white male it is fundamentally impossible for you to experience hardship. Only people of color and women ever have problems in life. You know why there are no activist/support groups for "fresh off boat" immigrants? They're too busy actively and constructively improving their lives. Fundamentally safe spaces and related are a thing of privilege. If you have time to think about that, you're part of the privileged group. I could be wrong. Maybe I've just never come across a support group organized by and for poor people, or by and for immigrants. Are there any?

cmdrfred 10y ago
The poor peoples campaign was one. They demanded an economic bill of rights. Martin Luther King was the founder of it, he believed that poverty the main issue in America at that time. A month later he was assassinated and the whole thing fell apart. "The Poor People’s Campaign was motivated by a desire for economic justice: the idea that all people should have what they need to live. King and the SCLC shifted their focus to these issues after observing that gains in civil rights had not improved the material conditions of life for many African Americans. The Poor People’s Campaign was a multiracial effort—including African-Americans, whites, Mexican-Americans, Puerto Ricans, and Native Americans—aimed at alleviating poverty regardless of race." His assassination (by government or business interests) is the only conspiracy I subscribe to. I believe we would live in a different world if he had a few more years on this earth.
- Swizec 10y ago
  I had no idea! Thanks! This looks interesting to look into. Too bad it's a was. Is there anything like it today?
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    Not that I'm aware of. I watched Occupy Wall Street for a while and it fragmented into a million subgroups without a leader. It seems you really need a Gandhi or MLK type to keep movements on track.

mLuby 10y ago

The US Presidency is such a "men-only (almost) whites-only" safe space, as are most circles of power in this country.

prodigal_erik 10y ago
Everyone routinely despises the president and blames him for things far outside his power. 9% of them have been murdered. If that's safety, I'll pass.
Zikes 10y ago
Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5 of the Constitution > No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. I don't see anything there about genitalia or skin color. But since it's a "safe space" I think I'll pop in there and relax for a bit. It's time I escape this mediocrity and claim the power of my white male birthright.
- Zikes 10y ago
  I apologize for the snark at the end. I am easily goaded.

fnovd 10y ago

That's a pretty one-sided view of safe spaces. I don't think "safe spaces" are meant to be so radically exclusionary, though it's obvious why they can end up that way. It's to give people an opportunity to talk about the impact of a thing without needing to prove that thing exists in the first place. It's like climate scientists not inviting deniers to their conference: they want to focus on the implications of climate change, not debate the existence of climate change itself. I think there are plenty of reasonable safe spaces that accomplish the thing they were meant to do without resorting to blanket exclusions. The answer to one extreme is usually not the other.