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Sorry but your comment simply indicates the problem. It's quite similar to the post-Brexit discussions, how pro-Bexit people are stupid, etc. We can talk abou
by gedrap 10y ago
Sorry but your comment simply indicates the problem.
It's quite similar to the post-Brexit discussions, how pro-Bexit people are stupid, etc.
We can talk about what a "liar, misogynist, tech illiterate, arrogant and overall a disgusting human being" he is all we want. It would probably be fine, as in it wouldn't really matter, if he was some random radical weirdo with an audience of a dozen equally weird folks. But he's the President-elect.
So we can continue with this circle jerk rant about what a disgusting human being is and what his voters are like. Or we can try to actually understand why so many people voted for him. But in order to do that, we need to stop the whole rant that never changes.
I am not pro-Trump. In fact, my safety largely depends on NATO and Trump poses a threat. But there's no point in shouting about what a misogynist he is. It's so counterproductive.
- asdfasdfa11112 10y agoI also think the shouting of "liar, misogynist, ..." -- that type of reaction by people, to call others names -- is a component of what led people to vote for Trump.
- rootlocus 10y agoSo you think it's ok to say everything Trump said during his campaign, and NOT be called out for it because... it's wrong to call people names?
- Chris2048 10y agoCall him out, but keep listening. Those names are used to justify shutting down the discussion.
- masondixon 10y agoGreat point. Racist and misogynist are very heavy terms, and once they are in the mix, there is no way a moderate is going to go near the discussion. It is like "you are racist, racists shouldn't be listened to, I will not listen to you". There have been so many comments like this in this thread - even when the original comment is pointing this out. Sigh. Its so great to learn something I did not think of during a discussion like this. Its exactly what its for.
- rootlocus 10y agoI'd like to quote another comment of yours: > Bias, bias, bias, and bias. And also share with you a special kind of bias you might be victim of: confirmation bias. Also your quotes: > Racist and misogynist are very heavy terms > On misogyny - she (Clinton) has never attacked a woman's character before? So, misogyny is a very heavy term, but you consider it's ok to attribute it to someone who simply attacks a woman's character (which actually has nothing to do with any definition of misogyny). Also, if you need proof that those terms weren't used lightly, I urge you to read another of my comments [1] where I posted videos of Trump proving he deserves being called that. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12932570 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12932570
- rootlocus 10y ago> It's quite similar to the post-Brexit discussions, how pro-Bexit people are stupid, etc. Except I didn't call voters stupid, I simply summarized what Trump said. > We can talk about [...] It would probably be fine [...] But he's the President-elect. Of course we can talk about it. We have freedom of speech (wasn't this the original point?). You mean to tell me he can say whatever he wants but I can't call him out because he's the president-elect? I get it that everyone whats to prevent things from going worse but we shouldn't close our eyes or accept whatever Trump happens to say or do out of fear. He shouldn't be allowed to do whatever he wants because "we must be united". He should be called out and, if necessary held accountable.
- gedrap 10y agoTrump those things was definitely not acceptable. But we can't undo the election or ignore the results of it simply because we don't find it acceptable. A very large share of American population were happy enough to vote for him. This, Brexit, raise to popularity of some specific parties in Europe should be a huge wake up call. And if we keep the attitude of 'racists voted him! He's a liar!' then it's just the beginning.
- return0 10y agoWe should be very worried about the prospect of nationalist parties in europe. Unlike the US, nationalism in europe is deadly, very deadly. We should have a frank discussion about immigration and define our red lines in order to weaken this wave.
- masondixon 10y agoThe thing is, these dangerous elements don't have any voice if there is not an issue in the first place. If the borders were controlled and immigration was regulated, then you have no Nazis gaining support. This is the side effect of these open borders policies in Germany. The liberal strategy is fundamentally flawed. Fighting racism through driving it underground is not the right approach. Its so sad.