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Yet another guy who doesn't know how to use Docker properly and just brags about it. There are a lot of misinformation in this blog post. The conclusion from t

by Walkman 10y ago

Yet another guy who doesn't know how to use Docker properly and just brags about it. There are a lot of misinformation in this blog post. The conclusion from these is not that Docker sucks, but YOU HAVE TO LEARN it. I agree that it's a very steep learning curve, but after the pieces come together, Docker solves quite a lot of problem and actually very useful.

swap32 10y ago
I think the article is very clear that this is about OUR experience of using docker. It is also stated right at the beginning that we have a business to run. If it going to take 2 years to integrate it into workflow (as it did for one of the commentors here) and hundreds of developer hours just to make it work, we have to decide whether it is viable for us. Other than that, I don't hear you refuting a single point that is made in the article. >> Yet another guy ... If there are a lot of people who are finding it difficult to grapple with it, maybe its really not their fault?
atemerev 10y ago
You have to learn it — where? Documentation is sketchy and mostly obsolete, docker-swarm is buggy, genuine production issues are routinely closed with WONTFIX resolution. Could you point me to good piece of documentation or success story of running Docker in production? (I do use Docker, but it requires to learn Kubernetes or DCOS to do anything production-related. And those are separate projects).
- fireflash38 10y ago
  Every one of these blog posts begins with almost exactly the same thing: The documentation just plain sucks. The doc parts that don't suck are outdated, and therefore useless. As long as that is the case, you are going to have people who go through the exact same troubles with Docker time and time again (one theme is databases in docker).
- cpuguy83 10y ago
  Maintainer here, can you please point to a production issue that is WONTFIX?
  - atemerev 10y ago
    This one: https://github.com/docker/machine/issues/3212 https://github.com/docker/machine/issues/3212 In essence, it is impossible to work with an existing Docker-managed host from another computer. I often work from home, and when I wanted to manage my Docker hosts from my laptop, it turned out to be impossible and this issue was closed without resolution. This was the day when I gave up on using native Docker.
  - atemerev 10y ago
    (Transferring ~/.docker wasn't an option as I already had a set of my own hosts on my computer, and manually editing undocumented configuration files is harder than it sounds — for some reason I forgot, I couldn't partially transfer some hosts but not the other. This is after I have spent 2 days in even deciphering what has happened, as error messages are uninformative and Docker CLI just hangs in an endless loop in such situation). Nothing of it is documented, of course.
    - cpuguy83 10y ago
      Indeed, would definitely be cool to be able to export a specific machine config to a tarball that can be imported on another machine. I don't work on machine, but anyone made a proposal for this (probably with warnings about copying ssh keys and such)? I know this doesn't help with your current issue on docker-machine, but... I think the issue here is docker-machine's primary intent is as a developer tool to spin up dev environments quickly and easily (zero-to-docker as we say), as such the datastore and security model is tailored to this. We are working on production-level infrastructure management, the base-layer of which you can find here: https://github.com/docker/infrakit https://github.com/docker/infrakit
      - atemerev 10y ago
        Docker-swarm is positioned as a production-grade orchestration tool, yet it depends on docker-machine. :(
noselasd 10y ago
It would be a lot more helpful if you point out the misinformation.
cpuguy83 10y ago
It's clear documentation is not up to snuff and something we need to work on (and are working on). I agree with the article that many of the official docs around use-cases (non-reference material) is outdated and difficult to keep up to date.
- cpuguy83 10y ago
  I should mention Docker has a "Docker Captains" program which are a group of people who write quality articles on using docker from intro-level to advanced. https://www.docker.com/community/docker-captains https://www.docker.com/community/docker-captains

by Walkman 10y ago

swap32 10y ago

I think the article is very clear that this is about OUR experience of using docker. It is also stated right at the beginning that we have a business to run. If it going to take 2 years to integrate it into workflow (as it did for one of the commentors here) and hundreds of developer hours just to make it work, we have to decide whether it is viable for us. Other than that, I don't hear you refuting a single point that is made in the article. >> Yet another guy ... If there are a lot of people who are finding it difficult to grapple with it, maybe its really not their fault?

atemerev 10y ago

You have to learn it — where? Documentation is sketchy and mostly obsolete, docker-swarm is buggy, genuine production issues are routinely closed with WONTFIX resolution. Could you point me to good piece of documentation or success story of running Docker in production? (I do use Docker, but it requires to learn Kubernetes or DCOS to do anything production-related. And those are separate projects).

fireflash38 10y ago
Every one of these blog posts begins with almost exactly the same thing: The documentation just plain sucks. The doc parts that don't suck are outdated, and therefore useless. As long as that is the case, you are going to have people who go through the exact same troubles with Docker time and time again (one theme is databases in docker).
cpuguy83 10y ago
Maintainer here, can you please point to a production issue that is WONTFIX?
- atemerev 10y ago
  This one: https://github.com/docker/machine/issues/3212 https://github.com/docker/machine/issues/3212 In essence, it is impossible to work with an existing Docker-managed host from another computer. I often work from home, and when I wanted to manage my Docker hosts from my laptop, it turned out to be impossible and this issue was closed without resolution. This was the day when I gave up on using native Docker.
- atemerev 10y ago
  (Transferring ~/.docker wasn't an option as I already had a set of my own hosts on my computer, and manually editing undocumented configuration files is harder than it sounds — for some reason I forgot, I couldn't partially transfer some hosts but not the other. This is after I have spent 2 days in even deciphering what has happened, as error messages are uninformative and Docker CLI just hangs in an endless loop in such situation). Nothing of it is documented, of course.
  - cpuguy83 10y ago
    Indeed, would definitely be cool to be able to export a specific machine config to a tarball that can be imported on another machine. I don't work on machine, but anyone made a proposal for this (probably with warnings about copying ssh keys and such)? I know this doesn't help with your current issue on docker-machine, but... I think the issue here is docker-machine's primary intent is as a developer tool to spin up dev environments quickly and easily (zero-to-docker as we say), as such the datastore and security model is tailored to this. We are working on production-level infrastructure management, the base-layer of which you can find here: https://github.com/docker/infrakit https://github.com/docker/infrakit
    - atemerev 10y ago
      Docker-swarm is positioned as a production-grade orchestration tool, yet it depends on docker-machine. :(

noselasd 10y ago

It would be a lot more helpful if you point out the misinformation.

cpuguy83 10y ago

It's clear documentation is not up to snuff and something we need to work on (and are working on). I agree with the article that many of the official docs around use-cases (non-reference material) is outdated and difficult to keep up to date.

cpuguy83 10y ago
I should mention Docker has a "Docker Captains" program which are a group of people who write quality articles on using docker from intro-level to advanced. https://www.docker.com/community/docker-captains https://www.docker.com/community/docker-captains