5 ms·

After losing control of the entire government, there is still this sense of: "I don't need to engage in debate with you". Its just not rationale.

tdkl 10y ago
People should ask themselves deeply why this happened and start researching. Because that would be a rational response, not "protesting" with destroying property.
- mch82 10y ago
  100% agree with this. Specifically, I'm trying to do three things right now... 1. Investigate "why" 2. Avoid partisan statements 3. Ask myself, if it were Obama instead of Trump would I feel the same way. And if the answer is no, I keep searching for the right message.
mch82 10y ago
The main lesson learned from Trump's campaign is that "rational" is far less important than "belief" and "story". Here's what seems irrational from my perspective: 1. Bob votes to elect Mike Pence, who takes the position "Homosexuality is incompatible with military service" [mikepence.com] 2. Dan, who is homosexual and in the military and Facebook friends with Bob since they started hanging out in college, finds out Bob voted for Mike Pence. 3. Dan says to Bob, "Yo man, that's pretty bigoted of you to vote for that guy." 4. Bob says I'm not a bigot. 5. Bob doesn't empathize with Dan or understand that Dan is really just pissed Bob took away his ability to serve the country in the military by electing Mike Pence. [mikepence.com]: https://web.archive.org/web/20020206052612/http://www.mikepence.com/issues.html https://web.archive.org/web/20020206052612/http://www.mikepe...
- Prefinem 10y ago
  6. Dan doesn't understand or empathize with Bob that while Bob may or may not approve just one aspect of a politician but that believes Pence is better than 'x' and thus is also a bigot.
  - mch82 10y ago
    I think that's where we disagree. Given, Dan can't change the fact he's gay. Given, Mike Pence has formally expressed that "Homosexuality is incompatible with military service" and signed into law legislation allowing businesses in Indiana to kick out gay customers when he was governor of Indiana. Given, Mike Pence's party controls the Congress, Executive, and Legislative branches of government. It follows it is likely harmful to homosexual people to elect Mike Pence. And the burden for explaining why that risk is okay falls on the people who vote for Pence and who don't want to be seen as racist, because it sure looks racist.
    - Chris2048 10y ago
      > It follows it is likely harmful to homosexual people to elect Mike Pence. And the burden for explaining why that risk is okay falls on the people who vote If an establishment candidate like Hillary is seen as harmful to Bob, is there a burden on Dan to explain why the risk of voting for her is Ok?
      - mch82 10y ago
        Maybe, can you put your example in context?
        Chris2048 10y ago
        Bob doesn't want to be drafted into a war with Russia, say.
        mch82 10y ago
        I'm pretty sure if you said to someone that you were worried a vote for Clinton is a vote for war with Russia then that person would understand what you meant. A person might disagree with you, but a person is not going to worry you feel the way you do because of their skin color or religion. Does that distinction make sense?
    - masondixon 10y ago

tdkl 10y ago

People should ask themselves deeply why this happened and start researching. Because that would be a rational response, not "protesting" with destroying property.

mch82 10y ago
100% agree with this. Specifically, I'm trying to do three things right now... 1. Investigate "why" 2. Avoid partisan statements 3. Ask myself, if it were Obama instead of Trump would I feel the same way. And if the answer is no, I keep searching for the right message.

mch82 10y ago

The main lesson learned from Trump's campaign is that "rational" is far less important than "belief" and "story". Here's what seems irrational from my perspective: 1. Bob votes to elect Mike Pence, who takes the position "Homosexuality is incompatible with military service" [mikepence.com] 2. Dan, who is homosexual and in the military and Facebook friends with Bob since they started hanging out in college, finds out Bob voted for Mike Pence. 3. Dan says to Bob, "Yo man, that's pretty bigoted of you to vote for that guy." 4. Bob says I'm not a bigot. 5. Bob doesn't empathize with Dan or understand that Dan is really just pissed Bob took away his ability to serve the country in the military by electing Mike Pence. [mikepence.com]: https://web.archive.org/web/20020206052612/http://www.mikepence.com/issues.html https://web.archive.org/web/20020206052612/http://www.mikepe...

Prefinem 10y ago
6. Dan doesn't understand or empathize with Bob that while Bob may or may not approve just one aspect of a politician but that believes Pence is better than 'x' and thus is also a bigot.
- mch82 10y ago
  I think that's where we disagree. Given, Dan can't change the fact he's gay. Given, Mike Pence has formally expressed that "Homosexuality is incompatible with military service" and signed into law legislation allowing businesses in Indiana to kick out gay customers when he was governor of Indiana. Given, Mike Pence's party controls the Congress, Executive, and Legislative branches of government. It follows it is likely harmful to homosexual people to elect Mike Pence. And the burden for explaining why that risk is okay falls on the people who vote for Pence and who don't want to be seen as racist, because it sure looks racist.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    > It follows it is likely harmful to homosexual people to elect Mike Pence. And the burden for explaining why that risk is okay falls on the people who vote If an establishment candidate like Hillary is seen as harmful to Bob, is there a burden on Dan to explain why the risk of voting for her is Ok?
    - mch82 10y ago
      Maybe, can you put your example in context?
      - Chris2048 10y ago
        Bob doesn't want to be drafted into a war with Russia, say.
        mch82 10y ago
        I'm pretty sure if you said to someone that you were worried a vote for Clinton is a vote for war with Russia then that person would understand what you meant. A person might disagree with you, but a person is not going to worry you feel the way you do because of their skin color or religion. Does that distinction make sense?
  - masondixon 10y ago