7 ms·

We do tend to diminish achievements from Asia historically. They discovered America first (the whole notion of "discovering" first a place where there already a

We do tend to diminish achievements from Asia historically. They discovered America first (the whole notion of "discovering" first a place where there already are people is absurd), they got printing first, they mastered gunpowder first... and yet most westerners will name Columbus, Gutenberg, and Europe.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
They mastered basic rocketry even before Europe got proficient with gunpowder...
danpalmer 10y ago
If you're basing the claim that they discovered America first on the book 1421 (which many people do) then you should know it's generally considered to be very poor quality historical research by most historians.
oelmekki 10y ago
For what it's worth, I'm in France and it's common knowledge here that China invented gunpowder. I don't think I've ever heard someone saying Europe did.
- jacobush 10y ago
  But Europe was the first to do CANNONS on a large scale...
  - oelmekki 10y ago
    Oh, yeah. Now you're mentioning it, "China invented gunpowder" is often followed by "but they used it only for fireworks".
    - funkyy 10y ago
      Polish here. We learn in schools that Chinese invented gunpowder - period. Few more things we learn about them and Arabs as well.
- tpeo 10y ago
  Apparently, back in the 19th century people credited Berthold Schwarz [0] with the inventiom of gunpowder. I remember reading Beyond Good and Evil and reading in the preface that "the Germans invented gunpowder" and being rather puzzled, but it turns out that that was considered a fact at the time. Though I wouldn't be surprised if gunpowder was discovered independently in Europe, or at least partly so because nobody walked out of China with a recipe for it. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthold_Schwarz https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthold_Schwarz
- 27182818284 10y ago
  It is pretty common in the US too... The US is a big country, results vary wildly. Taking a straw poll of the office everyone replied "China" as the inventor.
hackerboos 10y ago
>We do tend to diminish achievements from Asia historically Except Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Korea. I think a healthy skepticism of China is warranted. Especially a People's Daily article. The newspaper that was a driving force during the Cultural Revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Daily https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Daily
pipio21 10y ago
The whole notion of "discovering" first a place where there already are people is not absurd. You discover that this continent exist from your point of view. There were people already living there but they were totally ignorant of where they were living, in fact most of them were in Stone or bronze's age. "they got printing first, they mastered gunpowder first" Nobody will tell you this ever(that they got printing first). They will tell you that printing in metal last hundreds of times more than printing in porcelain or wood, and making it possible was a significant contribution that changed the world. How much typography do you see done today in porcelain? I have seen wood printing in China as an an art form, but not as something serious. Gunpower was mastered by Europe with the invention of gunpower without fumes of course, that is absolutely true. You should try yourself a weapon done with black gunpower to see the difference. It happened in Europe because of the scientific revolution that happened only in Europe because of the Gutenberg press among other things. Not just that but dynamite, TNT... The reality is that Asia created achievements until XV century, but they remained stagnant for 4 or 5 centuries. This is not something that I say, it is something that any Chinese will tell you.
deleted 10y ago
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TeMPOraL 10y ago

They mastered basic rocketry even before Europe got proficient with gunpowder...

danpalmer 10y ago

If you're basing the claim that they discovered America first on the book 1421 (which many people do) then you should know it's generally considered to be very poor quality historical research by most historians.

oelmekki 10y ago

For what it's worth, I'm in France and it's common knowledge here that China invented gunpowder. I don't think I've ever heard someone saying Europe did.

jacobush 10y ago
But Europe was the first to do CANNONS on a large scale...
- oelmekki 10y ago
  Oh, yeah. Now you're mentioning it, "China invented gunpowder" is often followed by "but they used it only for fireworks".
  - funkyy 10y ago
    Polish here. We learn in schools that Chinese invented gunpowder - period. Few more things we learn about them and Arabs as well.
tpeo 10y ago
Apparently, back in the 19th century people credited Berthold Schwarz [0] with the inventiom of gunpowder. I remember reading Beyond Good and Evil and reading in the preface that "the Germans invented gunpowder" and being rather puzzled, but it turns out that that was considered a fact at the time. Though I wouldn't be surprised if gunpowder was discovered independently in Europe, or at least partly so because nobody walked out of China with a recipe for it. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthold_Schwarz https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthold_Schwarz
27182818284 10y ago
It is pretty common in the US too... The US is a big country, results vary wildly. Taking a straw poll of the office everyone replied "China" as the inventor.

hackerboos 10y ago

>We do tend to diminish achievements from Asia historically Except Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Korea. I think a healthy skepticism of China is warranted. Especially a People's Daily article. The newspaper that was a driving force during the Cultural Revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Daily https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Daily

pipio21 10y ago

The whole notion of "discovering" first a place where there already are people is not absurd. You discover that this continent exist from your point of view. There were people already living there but they were totally ignorant of where they were living, in fact most of them were in Stone or bronze's age. "they got printing first, they mastered gunpowder first" Nobody will tell you this ever(that they got printing first). They will tell you that printing in metal last hundreds of times more than printing in porcelain or wood, and making it possible was a significant contribution that changed the world. How much typography do you see done today in porcelain? I have seen wood printing in China as an an art form, but not as something serious. Gunpower was mastered by Europe with the invention of gunpower without fumes of course, that is absolutely true. You should try yourself a weapon done with black gunpower to see the difference. It happened in Europe because of the scientific revolution that happened only in Europe because of the Gutenberg press among other things. Not just that but dynamite, TNT... The reality is that Asia created achievements until XV century, but they remained stagnant for 4 or 5 centuries. This is not something that I say, it is something that any Chinese will tell you.

deleted 10y ago

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