7 ms·

> He lied, as many on the left said he was. Please drop the partisan angle on this. This isn't a left/right difference. Obama campaigned with a similar promise

by privong 10y ago

> He lied, as many on the left said he was. Please drop the partisan angle on this. This isn't a left/right difference. Obama campaigned with a similar promise and he still selected lobbyists for his administration: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/08/15/there-are-65-former-lobbyists-currently-working-in-the-obama-administration/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/08/15/th... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Wheeler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Wheeler

noobermin 10y ago
I never said people on the left don't do it. Yes, Obama did it too. The point is Trump isn't what he appears to be, in fact he appears very similar to Obama in the sense that he convinced many people there would be change for the better but all evidence points to that he will just perpetuate the system which he rallied against (which Obama did too).
- tempestn 10y ago
  Legitimate question: what could Obama have done better? Being Canadian I didn't take as close an interest as I would have in my own government, but it seemed from my perspective like he was doing everything he could to bring about change. The problem appeared to be that he had a very different idea of what that change should be than the Republican Congress, and short of utterly capitulating, I'm not sure how you unilaterally engender cooperation in that situation. I'm sure that I'm both biased and largely uninformed though, so I'm interested in the counter-argument.
  - zardeh 10y ago
    Very little, Obama didn't have the advantage of a friendly congress.
    - Turing_Machine 10y ago
      Obama had both houses of Congress for his first two years. He could have passed any law he wanted (indeed, that's how Obamacare got passed).
      - Jtsummers 10y ago
        Which wasn't even the bill he wanted (Obamacare). They lacked a super majority (two thirds) in the Senate, so lots of compromises still had to happen. Fortunately, the Republican's also lack a super majority in the Senate this time around.
        Turing_Machine 10y ago
        "They lacked a super majority (two thirds) in the Senate, so lots of compromises still had to happen." Sorry, that is simply not true. Obamacare was passed without a single amendment (or even a full debate), and without a single Republican vote.
        maxerickson 10y ago
        Does getting Lieberman's vote by leaving out a public option count as a compromise? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Senate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Afforda...
        Turing_Machine 10y ago
        No one seriously believes that Lieberman was ever anything but a Democrat, so no.
        couchand 10y ago
        That doesn't at all mean no compromises were made. It would be oversimplifying and naive to assume that the only compromises made in political dealings manifested as amendments.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
  - serf 10y ago
    >> Legitimate question: what could Obama have done better? I don't know, i'm no politician; i'm just waiting on the 2008 Obama campaign promise to close Guantanamo Bay (to clarify: I mean cease black operations at that site indefinitely -- I don't have any illusions that the U.S. will stop illegal black operations internationally.). I don't know whether or not if it's an impossibility at this point to do so; but I also believe if it is impossible it probably shouldn't have been a campaign promise used to influence voters.
    - Jtsummers 10y ago
      He lacked sufficient Congressional support for a lot of that. And when he did release detainees? He was demonized by many (particularly from the right).
    - gethoht 10y ago
      Let's hope you're so particular when it comes to Trump and his campaign promises. So far his "draining the swamp" means he's filled it with establishment sewage. http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics/donald-trump-transition-drain-the-swamp/ http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics/donald-trump-transiti...
    - pavlov 10y ago
      Closing Guantànamo Bay turned out to be much more difficult than Obama assumed. The full sordid story can be found here: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/01/why-obama-has-failed-to-close-guantanamo http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/01/why-obama-has-f...
    - ryanbrunner 10y ago
      I agree with the overall message that Obama was way more establishment than he made himself seem in the campaign, but Guantanamo is a horrible example. He's consistently brought it up and fight for it, if it was an empty campaign promise he would have quietly never mentioned it again. Impossibility can mean a couple of things - the logistical challenges of where Guantanamo prisoners should go, and the impossibility of getting it done in a Republican-controlled senate and house. The first is in line with your point, although I think it's a reasonable assumption that Obama honestly underestimated the challenge. For the second, it's not reasonable to call it a broken promise if he made a good faith effort and was blocked by something out of his control (that he couldn't have necessarily predicted)
  - wildengineer 10y ago
    IMO the ACA was an overreach that cost him the congress in 2010 and possibly Clinton's presidency. That political capital would have been better spent on getting higher taxes at the top and fixing social security.
    - atomi 10y ago
      > better spent Most people might think that except maybe the people with pre-existing conditions who were able to get healthcare.
- privong 10y ago
  > I never said people on the left don't do it. Apologies for my mis-interpretation. I think discussions about such things (e.g., the revolving door for lobbyists, where most people seem to agree that it's bad for governance) would benefit from people omitting specific party/ideology references. It just creates the potential for mis-interpretation and can result in unnecessary strife and the illusion of division for an issue that most people probably agree on. And, as @praisewhitey noted[0], people on the right probably said the same thing about Trump too. So this isn't a "the left was right this time and the right was wrong and when Obama ran the right was right and the left was wrong" division. (Though it's likely true that people are more forgiving of candidates who hold their own ideologies). [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12927416 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12927416
- postcarnival 10y ago
  You're criticizing a presidency that hasn't even seen it's first day! All of the "evidence" also pointed to Clinton winning in a landslide, and then a stock market crash after he won... what happened? Ya. Relax.
  - mkaziz 10y ago
    https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656 https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656 this happened
    - oldmanjay 10y ago
      I just scrolled around randomly and one of the moments is a group of young black men kicking an old white man [0]. I'm not sure what the message is here but it seems likely that the collators are playing fast and loose to pile the evidence on [0] https://mobile.twitter.com/kmscodi/status/796554667748716545/video/1 https://mobile.twitter.com/kmscodi/status/796554667748716545...
      - mkaziz 10y ago
        Yep, that was one of the worst ones in the list. I think the message was just showing the rampant racism, regardless of the race of the perpetrator.
    - rdtsc 10y ago
      --- Not even 24 hours yet. My friend's sister, who is Muslim, had a knife pulled on her by a Trump supporter while on the bus by UIUC campus. --- https://twitter.com/amyharvard_/status/796450126546030592 https://twitter.com/amyharvard_/status/796450126546030592 looked here, looks pretty serious, but refused to report it to the police? I am guessing because filing a fake police report is a crime...
      - mschuster91 10y ago
        > I am guessing because filing a fake police report is a crime... No. In Germany, many left-wing activists do not file police claims if they've been beaten up or assaulted by fascists. The problem is that the police gives the opposite party or at least their lawyer the full address of the victim - and these addresses tend to be aggregated and leaked on fascist blogs. In America, where even private information such as divorce papers apparently falls under "this is a public document" rules, I wouldn't even dare calling 911, much less filing a police report.
gefh 10y ago
Tom Wheeler has done his job just fine, and not shown any preference to his old industry. For all we know Obama made a great choice based on his character.

by privong 10y ago

noobermin 10y ago

I never said people on the left don't do it. Yes, Obama did it too. The point is Trump isn't what he appears to be, in fact he appears very similar to Obama in the sense that he convinced many people there would be change for the better but all evidence points to that he will just perpetuate the system which he rallied against (which Obama did too).

tempestn 10y ago
Legitimate question: what could Obama have done better? Being Canadian I didn't take as close an interest as I would have in my own government, but it seemed from my perspective like he was doing everything he could to bring about change. The problem appeared to be that he had a very different idea of what that change should be than the Republican Congress, and short of utterly capitulating, I'm not sure how you unilaterally engender cooperation in that situation. I'm sure that I'm both biased and largely uninformed though, so I'm interested in the counter-argument.
- zardeh 10y ago
  Very little, Obama didn't have the advantage of a friendly congress.
  - Turing_Machine 10y ago
    Obama had both houses of Congress for his first two years. He could have passed any law he wanted (indeed, that's how Obamacare got passed).
    - Jtsummers 10y ago
      Which wasn't even the bill he wanted (Obamacare). They lacked a super majority (two thirds) in the Senate, so lots of compromises still had to happen. Fortunately, the Republican's also lack a super majority in the Senate this time around.
      - Turing_Machine 10y ago
        "They lacked a super majority (two thirds) in the Senate, so lots of compromises still had to happen." Sorry, that is simply not true. Obamacare was passed without a single amendment (or even a full debate), and without a single Republican vote.
        maxerickson 10y ago
        Does getting Lieberman's vote by leaving out a public option count as a compromise? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Senate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Afforda...
        Turing_Machine 10y ago
        No one seriously believes that Lieberman was ever anything but a Democrat, so no.
        couchand 10y ago
        That doesn't at all mean no compromises were made. It would be oversimplifying and naive to assume that the only compromises made in political dealings manifested as amendments.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
- serf 10y ago
  >> Legitimate question: what could Obama have done better? I don't know, i'm no politician; i'm just waiting on the 2008 Obama campaign promise to close Guantanamo Bay (to clarify: I mean cease black operations at that site indefinitely -- I don't have any illusions that the U.S. will stop illegal black operations internationally.). I don't know whether or not if it's an impossibility at this point to do so; but I also believe if it is impossible it probably shouldn't have been a campaign promise used to influence voters.
  - Jtsummers 10y ago
    He lacked sufficient Congressional support for a lot of that. And when he did release detainees? He was demonized by many (particularly from the right).
  - gethoht 10y ago
    Let's hope you're so particular when it comes to Trump and his campaign promises. So far his "draining the swamp" means he's filled it with establishment sewage. http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics/donald-trump-transition-drain-the-swamp/ http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics/donald-trump-transiti...
  - pavlov 10y ago
    Closing Guantànamo Bay turned out to be much more difficult than Obama assumed. The full sordid story can be found here: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/01/why-obama-has-failed-to-close-guantanamo http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/01/why-obama-has-f...
  - ryanbrunner 10y ago
    I agree with the overall message that Obama was way more establishment than he made himself seem in the campaign, but Guantanamo is a horrible example. He's consistently brought it up and fight for it, if it was an empty campaign promise he would have quietly never mentioned it again. Impossibility can mean a couple of things - the logistical challenges of where Guantanamo prisoners should go, and the impossibility of getting it done in a Republican-controlled senate and house. The first is in line with your point, although I think it's a reasonable assumption that Obama honestly underestimated the challenge. For the second, it's not reasonable to call it a broken promise if he made a good faith effort and was blocked by something out of his control (that he couldn't have necessarily predicted)
- wildengineer 10y ago
  IMO the ACA was an overreach that cost him the congress in 2010 and possibly Clinton's presidency. That political capital would have been better spent on getting higher taxes at the top and fixing social security.
  - atomi 10y ago
    > better spent Most people might think that except maybe the people with pre-existing conditions who were able to get healthcare.
privong 10y ago
> I never said people on the left don't do it. Apologies for my mis-interpretation. I think discussions about such things (e.g., the revolving door for lobbyists, where most people seem to agree that it's bad for governance) would benefit from people omitting specific party/ideology references. It just creates the potential for mis-interpretation and can result in unnecessary strife and the illusion of division for an issue that most people probably agree on. And, as @praisewhitey noted[0], people on the right probably said the same thing about Trump too. So this isn't a "the left was right this time and the right was wrong and when Obama ran the right was right and the left was wrong" division. (Though it's likely true that people are more forgiving of candidates who hold their own ideologies). [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12927416 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12927416
postcarnival 10y ago
You're criticizing a presidency that hasn't even seen it's first day! All of the "evidence" also pointed to Clinton winning in a landslide, and then a stock market crash after he won... what happened? Ya. Relax.
- mkaziz 10y ago
  https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656 https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656 this happened
  - oldmanjay 10y ago
    I just scrolled around randomly and one of the moments is a group of young black men kicking an old white man [0]. I'm not sure what the message is here but it seems likely that the collators are playing fast and loose to pile the evidence on [0] https://mobile.twitter.com/kmscodi/status/796554667748716545/video/1 https://mobile.twitter.com/kmscodi/status/796554667748716545...
    - mkaziz 10y ago
      Yep, that was one of the worst ones in the list. I think the message was just showing the rampant racism, regardless of the race of the perpetrator.
  - rdtsc 10y ago
    --- Not even 24 hours yet. My friend's sister, who is Muslim, had a knife pulled on her by a Trump supporter while on the bus by UIUC campus. --- https://twitter.com/amyharvard_/status/796450126546030592 https://twitter.com/amyharvard_/status/796450126546030592 looked here, looks pretty serious, but refused to report it to the police? I am guessing because filing a fake police report is a crime...
    - mschuster91 10y ago
      > I am guessing because filing a fake police report is a crime... No. In Germany, many left-wing activists do not file police claims if they've been beaten up or assaulted by fascists. The problem is that the police gives the opposite party or at least their lawyer the full address of the victim - and these addresses tend to be aggregated and leaked on fascist blogs. In America, where even private information such as divorce papers apparently falls under "this is a public document" rules, I wouldn't even dare calling 911, much less filing a police report.

gefh 10y ago

Tom Wheeler has done his job just fine, and not shown any preference to his old industry. For all we know Obama made a great choice based on his character.