8 ms·

Great moral courage there. YC has a choice: do what IBM did in the 1930's or not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org

by _pius 10y ago

Great moral courage there. YC has a choice: do what IBM did in the 1930's or not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust And before you say I'm "going Godwin," remember: It was Sam and Paul who've said they think Trump is a threat of similar proportions. If Sam really thinks that, the moral thing to do is cut ties. And yes, it'll be hard. Would have been easier to do before the election. It will only get harder.

AvenueIngres 10y ago
I guess that makes YC complicit of extrajudicial murders w/ Obama's drone program as well? Somehow actual mass murders didn't matter at the time, but now that a non-progressive candidate has won the general election... YC has to do something about the mean things that candidate said. Wew lad, are you OK? I genuinely feel like it's been a rough ride for you
ikeboy 10y ago
Wouldn't the point where it becomes morally obligatory to do that be once Trump actually starts doing things that are comparable? Right now we don't really know which of his promises he plans on actually keeping.
- fucking_tragedy 10y ago
  We can go by his stated intentions to help determine where in the realm of possibility his future actions might play out. Mass deportations and a retreat on civil rights and equality are within that realm.
  - ikeboy 10y ago
    I'm not saying there's no chance he'll do those things. I'm saying that it's not certain enough to obligate people to not cooperate with him. (Also, if the Holocaust had only consisted of mass deportations it wouldn't be nearly as bad or remembered. Have some perspective.)
    - fucking_tragedy 10y ago
      > (Also, if the Holocaust had only consisted of mass deportations it wouldn't be nearly as bad or remembered. Have some perspective.) We already tried this and have seen the results. We rounded up and deported more than a million Mexicans twice in our history. It is remembered, California apologized for their hand in it a couple of years ago. Millions of families could be uprooted, torn apart and be left stranded without ID, possessions or money[1] and left to die[2]. Mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, friends, neighbors, co-workers and classmates could disappear. My perspective is that 'exactly as bad as the Holocaust' isn't the bar to pass to be a potential tragedy. I didn't make a comparison to the Holocaust, but since we're there: deportation and mass ordered removal is part of what made the Holocaust a tragedy. It took years of deportations (of the traditional sense), forced relocations and imprisonment before people were shipped to the ovens in droves. [1] http://immigrationimpact.com/2016/04/07/deported-immigrants-possessions/ http://immigrationimpact.com/2016/04/07/deported-immigrants-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#Consequences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#Consequences
      - ikeboy 10y ago
        I don't disagree, but I was responding to someone who did compare.
- generic_user 10y ago
  Yes, When Trump suspends the constitution and starts a continental war with Mexico and Canada. And sends Six million Jews including his own daughter to be exterminated in gas chambers then we can compare him to Hitler. Until such events unfold (I'm not holding my breath) entertaining people who make these ridiculous arguments is like a slow, self inflicted lobotomy.
daxorid 10y ago
What is going on with this community? I feel like I am taking proverbial crazy pills. Clinton advocated for a "Manhattan Project" scope effort to backdoor crypto. She wants no-fly zones over Syria, a place we have NO business being in, to directly provoke proxy wars with Russia. She is extremely antagonistic to freedom of association and free enterprise, and she LOVES the panopticon surveillance state we have. She is NO FRIEND OF EITHER STARTUPS OR HACKERS, and yet, 99% of you are frothing at the mouth over a man who said bad words 18 years ago. It is at the point that I don't even think I can do business with any of you ever again.
- scrollaway 10y ago
  The subthread you are replying to didn't mention Clinton. Didn't talk about Clinton. Didn't even say the word "Clinton" once. Yet your reply is entirely about Clinton. Why? You'll find that a lot of people in this community actively dislike Clinton. But after the election, she is now essentially irrelevant. So talking about her doesn't advance anything - talking about the upcoming president, however...
  - daxorid 10y ago
    Because two days ago Clinton was the alternative. And all the anger in the community in the last 48 hours (and prior, in the case of Thiel and YC ) has been directed at those who selected against her. This will be relevant long after the election even if the topic is Trump, for obvious reasons.
- roywiggins 10y ago
  In my personal morality: Torture is an absolute evil. Military engagements to kill armed combatants that kill innocents is a relative evil. Surveillance is a relative evil. Trump is the Torture Candidate. He's on record, he loves torture. He said it on the campaign trail. He could have been Orange Bernie and I would have refused to vote for him.
- 234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
  Please think of the children, minorities and women. You can ignore the 35% of hispanics who voted for Trump though. Those minorities don't count. Also Asians. Asians don't count as a minority either. Actually white women as well, since 53% of them voted for Trump. Did you know Hillary is a woman?
jerf 10y ago
Yes, you went Godwin. Trump isn't Hitler. That's election propaganda, not truth. Election's over. Time to put the election propaganda away. Now, you might still not like him. Heck, let me take a bold step and say you won't like him. He will do things you won't like. Welcome to the real world. My government's been doing things I don't like my entire life. (Along with all the things I do like.) But I rate the odds that he's going to ethnically cleanse the US at "as close to 0 as I can mathematically get". In the event that he really does turn into Hitler, I promise to stand up to stop him along with all the other people who will. I'm not too worried about having to follow through on that, though. (If you want to talk about which candidates tend to murder their way out of problems... well... I'll freely admit to not having proof but Trump wasn't the one I was worried about that.)
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  You're right. Trump doesn't believe Hitler did nothing wrong. He's just the overwhelmingly preferred candidate of people who believe Hitler did nothing wrong. It's an important difference! Those people obviously voted for him while believing he would never actually act on the things they care about!
  - jerf 10y ago
    Going Godwin again doesn't make the argument any better. This is what all those news articles lately have been about. You're too insulated from the rest of the country if you seriously think ~50% of the nation just voted for Hitler. That card's played out... every Republican's been [expletive] Hitler if you listen to the Democrats. That's election propaganda. Time to put that away. I mean, ideally we wouldn't all swallow it in the first place, but time to put it away.
    - ubernostrum 10y ago
      So you're telling me it was a ridiculous liberal myth that David Duke supported Trump? That since the election results came in large numbers of people have reported increased harassment and threats of violence based on their apparent race, religion or national origin? That the Trump campaign refused to disavow the xenophobic tendencies of some vocal supporters? I'd love to find out that it was all 100% manufactured and none of it ever happened or was true. But, y'know, it all did happen and was true. And it elected a candidate who began his campaign on explicitly racist (build a wall and deport all the "Mexican rapists") and xenophobic (ban all the Muslims) lines.
generic_user 10y ago
Its precisely because of SJW outrage cultures ridiculous juvenile comparisons to Hitler of anyone who disagrees with the narrative that these claims have zero shock value and no one takes them seriously anymore. The same can be said of racism, sexism, misogyny etc. You have done more to de-stigmatize these words then the people who espouse the ideology have ever been able to do. It has made the accusation in itself a clownish eye rolling gesture to the general public. Rather then something to take seriously. No one with any credibility is going to compare the President elect of the United States to Hitler. Its a pantomime act that the disgraced 'Media' and Twitter nobodies do to entertain one another.

by _pius 10y ago

AvenueIngres 10y ago

I guess that makes YC complicit of extrajudicial murders w/ Obama's drone program as well? Somehow actual mass murders didn't matter at the time, but now that a non-progressive candidate has won the general election... YC has to do something about the mean things that candidate said. Wew lad, are you OK? I genuinely feel like it's been a rough ride for you

ikeboy 10y ago

Wouldn't the point where it becomes morally obligatory to do that be once Trump actually starts doing things that are comparable? Right now we don't really know which of his promises he plans on actually keeping.

fucking_tragedy 10y ago
We can go by his stated intentions to help determine where in the realm of possibility his future actions might play out. Mass deportations and a retreat on civil rights and equality are within that realm.
- ikeboy 10y ago
  I'm not saying there's no chance he'll do those things. I'm saying that it's not certain enough to obligate people to not cooperate with him. (Also, if the Holocaust had only consisted of mass deportations it wouldn't be nearly as bad or remembered. Have some perspective.)
  - fucking_tragedy 10y ago
    > (Also, if the Holocaust had only consisted of mass deportations it wouldn't be nearly as bad or remembered. Have some perspective.) We already tried this and have seen the results. We rounded up and deported more than a million Mexicans twice in our history. It is remembered, California apologized for their hand in it a couple of years ago. Millions of families could be uprooted, torn apart and be left stranded without ID, possessions or money[1] and left to die[2]. Mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, friends, neighbors, co-workers and classmates could disappear. My perspective is that 'exactly as bad as the Holocaust' isn't the bar to pass to be a potential tragedy. I didn't make a comparison to the Holocaust, but since we're there: deportation and mass ordered removal is part of what made the Holocaust a tragedy. It took years of deportations (of the traditional sense), forced relocations and imprisonment before people were shipped to the ovens in droves. [1] http://immigrationimpact.com/2016/04/07/deported-immigrants-possessions/ http://immigrationimpact.com/2016/04/07/deported-immigrants-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#Consequences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#Consequences
    - ikeboy 10y ago
      I don't disagree, but I was responding to someone who did compare.
generic_user 10y ago
Yes, When Trump suspends the constitution and starts a continental war with Mexico and Canada. And sends Six million Jews including his own daughter to be exterminated in gas chambers then we can compare him to Hitler. Until such events unfold (I'm not holding my breath) entertaining people who make these ridiculous arguments is like a slow, self inflicted lobotomy.

daxorid 10y ago

What is going on with this community? I feel like I am taking proverbial crazy pills. Clinton advocated for a "Manhattan Project" scope effort to backdoor crypto. She wants no-fly zones over Syria, a place we have NO business being in, to directly provoke proxy wars with Russia. She is extremely antagonistic to freedom of association and free enterprise, and she LOVES the panopticon surveillance state we have. She is NO FRIEND OF EITHER STARTUPS OR HACKERS, and yet, 99% of you are frothing at the mouth over a man who said bad words 18 years ago. It is at the point that I don't even think I can do business with any of you ever again.

scrollaway 10y ago
The subthread you are replying to didn't mention Clinton. Didn't talk about Clinton. Didn't even say the word "Clinton" once. Yet your reply is entirely about Clinton. Why? You'll find that a lot of people in this community actively dislike Clinton. But after the election, she is now essentially irrelevant. So talking about her doesn't advance anything - talking about the upcoming president, however...
- daxorid 10y ago
  Because two days ago Clinton was the alternative. And all the anger in the community in the last 48 hours (and prior, in the case of Thiel and YC ) has been directed at those who selected against her. This will be relevant long after the election even if the topic is Trump, for obvious reasons.
roywiggins 10y ago
In my personal morality: Torture is an absolute evil. Military engagements to kill armed combatants that kill innocents is a relative evil. Surveillance is a relative evil. Trump is the Torture Candidate. He's on record, he loves torture. He said it on the campaign trail. He could have been Orange Bernie and I would have refused to vote for him.
234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
Please think of the children, minorities and women. You can ignore the 35% of hispanics who voted for Trump though. Those minorities don't count. Also Asians. Asians don't count as a minority either. Actually white women as well, since 53% of them voted for Trump. Did you know Hillary is a woman?

jerf 10y ago

Yes, you went Godwin. Trump isn't Hitler. That's election propaganda, not truth. Election's over. Time to put the election propaganda away. Now, you might still not like him. Heck, let me take a bold step and say you won't like him. He will do things you won't like. Welcome to the real world. My government's been doing things I don't like my entire life. (Along with all the things I do like.) But I rate the odds that he's going to ethnically cleanse the US at "as close to 0 as I can mathematically get". In the event that he really does turn into Hitler, I promise to stand up to stop him along with all the other people who will. I'm not too worried about having to follow through on that, though. (If you want to talk about which candidates tend to murder their way out of problems... well... I'll freely admit to not having proof but Trump wasn't the one I was worried about that.)

ubernostrum 10y ago
You're right. Trump doesn't believe Hitler did nothing wrong. He's just the overwhelmingly preferred candidate of people who believe Hitler did nothing wrong. It's an important difference! Those people obviously voted for him while believing he would never actually act on the things they care about!
- jerf 10y ago
  Going Godwin again doesn't make the argument any better. This is what all those news articles lately have been about. You're too insulated from the rest of the country if you seriously think ~50% of the nation just voted for Hitler. That card's played out... every Republican's been [expletive] Hitler if you listen to the Democrats. That's election propaganda. Time to put that away. I mean, ideally we wouldn't all swallow it in the first place, but time to put it away.
  - ubernostrum 10y ago
    So you're telling me it was a ridiculous liberal myth that David Duke supported Trump? That since the election results came in large numbers of people have reported increased harassment and threats of violence based on their apparent race, religion or national origin? That the Trump campaign refused to disavow the xenophobic tendencies of some vocal supporters? I'd love to find out that it was all 100% manufactured and none of it ever happened or was true. But, y'know, it all did happen and was true. And it elected a candidate who began his campaign on explicitly racist (build a wall and deport all the "Mexican rapists") and xenophobic (ban all the Muslims) lines.

generic_user 10y ago

Its precisely because of SJW outrage cultures ridiculous juvenile comparisons to Hitler of anyone who disagrees with the narrative that these claims have zero shock value and no one takes them seriously anymore. The same can be said of racism, sexism, misogyny etc. You have done more to de-stigmatize these words then the people who espouse the ideology have ever been able to do. It has made the accusation in itself a clownish eye rolling gesture to the general public. Rather then something to take seriously. No one with any credibility is going to compare the President elect of the United States to Hitler. Its a pantomime act that the disgraced 'Media' and Twitter nobodies do to entertain one another.