10 ms·
Gut Feelings: Bacteria and the Brain (2013)
- HillaryBriss 10y ago> Researchers have recently shown that the presence of gut microbiota during early development influences the brain’s neural connectivity related to anxiety and depression. Gut microbiota has been linked to behavior, to stress, and to stress-related diseases. Changes in gut microbiota may influence risk of disease, and manipulating microbiota may provide novel ways to intervene in clinical situations related to mood and anxiety disorders.
- esotericsean 10y agoNothing new. Not sure why HN is obsessed with old articles about gut bacteria.
- RCortex 10y agoSoft marketing for that company that sells gut bacteria pills, they post ads on here fairly often.
- alooackbar 10y agobecause we spend so much time reading HN while sitting on the toilet
- trhway 10y agoquick easy hacks solving complex hard-to-debug problems have its appeal. I spent bunch of years suffering from what happens to be candida overgrowth and its feels really great once i was able to take it under control.
- sushid 10y agoHow were you able to solve your problem? And if you don't mind me asking, what were some symptoms that made you want to get checked out? Also, how were you able to get tested? Sorry for bombing you with questions, but I'm just genuinely curious as I've wanted to get tested but my primary physician instantly dismissed it and made me feel like I was suggesting voodoo rituals.
- trhway 10y agothe same about physician :). Anyway - i'm not a doctor, so it is just a personal anekdot. To me it was very active fermentation and resulting excessive unstoppable belching (impacting/stumbling the natural breathing movement of the chest/lungs and that breathing problem made it very hard to for example concentrate or to get to sleep, etc.), fatigue and brain fog. Reading Internet made it pretty clear that yeast/candida is the primary (and basically the only) candidate. Antifungals drugs seems to be the medical way to go. On the other side - giving that candida is the natural tenant inside our GI system, it seems to me (again, i'm not a doctor, it is just my understanding) that full "cure" isn't really possible and one can only control the issue. Giving that people reported very different results with those drugs and those drugs may be heavy on liver i decided to go initially with more natural alternatives. I'v been so far fortunate that it works for me. Specifically well known natural antifungals - garlic (as pills because real garlic smell is an issue at home and at work :), apple cider vinegar (for me it works as 2 tablespoons diluted in a glass of water 2 times a day), ginger (several cups of ginger tea during the day. Also instead of apple cider vinegar i frequently use vinegar based tonic like Kevita, specifically the "Tumeric Ginger" one. The tonic also contains probiotic cultures and that works great for me). I use all 3 of them - garlic, vinegar, ginger - as at the beginning i noticed that when using only one the yeast seems to adjust after some time and the issue starts to come back. In general it seems very individual, takes some time and experimentation. It took me several months to develop my regimen mentioned above and achieve current stable good results. Again, i'm not a doctor and this is just a personal anekdot.
- edem 10y agoSounds nice but we don't have Kevita in our country (Hungary). Can you name some alternatives?
- nibs 10y ago1. Systemic yeast infections are caused by gut dysbiosis. Gut dysbiosis is basically overgrowth of bad bacteria. 2. Migranes, bloating, brain fog, thrush all over body, bowel transit issues (too fast or slow), anxious There is a medication that is sold OTC called Diflucan. It is magical if you have this problem. The only long term fix is stop eating food that makes the cell walls of your bowels disintegrate. The goal is for large proteins to remain in your intestines and not leak into your body and cause your immune system to attack itself. Part of what leaks out is yeast cells that can infect different parts of your body. Candida is a bad Google term to use, because of the magical voodoo associations, but gut dysbiosis is well studied and found often in the immunocompromised (ie. AIDS patients). More common than AIDS is that it is a chronic food allergy that goes undiagnosed for years and leaks to deterioration of the quality and accuracy of the immune response, paired with the leaking of proteins out of your gut. All fairly new science too so doctors still consider it voodoo. Some foods make your gut leaky (alcohol, egg whites, sugar) and some cause the problems when they leak out (gliadin, casein, yeast). It is very complex if you rabbit hole it. In general it falls under neuroimmunology.
- prakashrj 10y agoAll children with Autism have gut issues. They have dysbiosis which causes them to behave like they do. Many children recover when their gut micro-biome is fixed. Organic Castor Oil taken regularly twice a week for an year will fix it. I know that people will not believe it. But I would just like to post it here just for future reference.
- sixo 10y agoSpeaking of reference, why don't you provide one?
- callesgg 10y agoSaying something like that without something backing it up is pretty fucked up. It is comparable to telling a cancer patient "Praying to god is the best option, the expensive medicine you are taking is useless."
- simplexion 10y agoGive autistic children ALL THE RICIN!
- mb_72 10y agoUnfortunately these kind of beliefs can be harmful not only to autistic children but their parents also. This is not about 'belief', it's simply that you have no evidence to support your claims.
- bertiewhykovich 10y agoAm I imagining that the enthusiasm for gut bacteria research is driven in part (potentially in large part) by the failure of more classical physiological paradigms for understanding mental illness? Anything to avoid confronting the fact that people have real, profound problems, eh?
- grzm 10y agoPerhaps. There's also evidence that gut bacteria produce a significant amount of neurotransmitters, such as serotonin. There's always the cause/correlation piece, but it's not unreasonable to believe that gut bacteria play some role, regardless of the ultimate cause. https://www.caltech.edu/news/microbes-help-produce-serotonin-gut-46495 https://www.caltech.edu/news/microbes-help-produce-serotonin...
- Lambdanaut 10y ago> the fact that people have real, profound problems, eh? What does that even mean? Gut bacteria not real and profound enough for you?
- bertiewhykovich 10y agono
- perrylaj 10y agoI think the inverse is actually the truth. "Classic" physiological paradigms have failed only in the sense that that early findings were represented far too simplistically by those who benefitted from simplistic models (pharma companies). No respectable neuroscientist has ever claimed anything even approaching a coherent understanding/model of mental illness. The discovery of gut/vagus interaction and its direct effects on mental function is simply an extension of the monoamine research. The enthusiasm for gut biome research lies in the fact that it's a relatively new field and may contribute a lot to our understanding of nature vs nurture (heritability vs environment) due to how gut bacteria cause direct and measurable changes to neurological function via the vagus nerve, which (at least in mouse models) directly affects behavior. This research isn't somehow replacing other ideas, but rather acting to supplement and help paint a more complete picture of a very incomplete understanding. I'm not sure what you're referencing by 'avoiding confrontation...'.
- grzm 10y ago[2013]
- tudorw 10y agoyour microbiota are primed at birth, then over life they change at each stage of development, around 6, around 13, around 26, around 40 and later in life, they impact your microbiome which effects the way you feel profoundly as well as the function of your immune system, the clinical research is out there to support this. http://www.nature.com/articles/srep23075 http://www.nature.com/articles/srep23075
- tudorw 10y agotry a search for metabolomics and microbiome and metagenomics and enjoy a taster of patientcentric 22nd century medicine...
- AndreiC92 10y agoso can you control this in order to improve your life?
- tudorw 10y agoultimately I believe that artificial enzymes will unlock the secret to eternal life, I do not think I will be around to see that, yes, you can certainly 'set yourself up for success' by understanding nutrition and trying to make sure the chemistry set that is your body gets the right access to the stuff it needs to operate your biochemistry, which has a large influence over physical and mental well being.
- thwang 10y agoWhat are your thoughts on telomere extension? I feel like a combo of the two fields will have great results.
- tudorw 10y agoseems like a good avenue to explore, http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101128/full/news.2010.635.html http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101128/full/news.2010.635.ht... there seems to be a fair bit we don't know about telemerase, well, lots I don't know! http://www.jneurosci.org/content/22/24/10710.short http://www.jneurosci.org/content/22/24/10710.short http://molehr.oxfordjournals.org/content/3/9/769.short http://molehr.oxfordjournals.org/content/3/9/769.short "Resveratrol is a stilbenoid, commonly found in grapes and in the roots of the Japanese Knotweed during stress and bacterial or fungial infection. In mouse and rat experiments, resveratrol has been shown to play a role in telomere lengthening, telomerase activity enhancement, blood sugar-lowering, inhibition of platelet aggregation, promotion of vasodilation by enhancing the production of NO and have anti-inflammatory properties." http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2016/0030530.html http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2016/0030530.html
- mksmith 10y agoGut bacteria seem to be the phrenology of the 21st century. I'm sure it will all be debunked in 20 years.
- mmanfrin 10y agoCare to explain your stance, or should we just agree with a brand new HN account saying a published research paper is false?
- mksmith2 10y agoSure: Personal acquaintance with a published researcher (professor) who did not know when to use MANOVA in his own experiment. Student of another professor who was told to repeat his PhD experiment until the p-value was "acceptable". Being published means very little in medicine. Also, constant hype on HN for gut bacteria with credulous comments (or advertising, as another poster pointed out).
- tstactplsignore 10y agoI work in the field. The statistical mistakes are only one problem- researchers in the field also make huge mistakes in understanding both microbial diversity and computational genomics. It is partly because many of these studies are run by human biology-minded researchers who know very little about either statistical analysis or microbial diversity (IMO ignorance of microbiology is as big an issue in the field as ignorance of stats). The other issue is this is a uniquely and enormously complicated intersection of science- there simply are few to no people who are simultaneously knowledgeable about immunology, statistics, computational genomics, microbial physiology, and microbial diversity- the bare minimum number of fields that will come into play when dissecting a host-microbe interaction. That being said there are some very brilliant and rigorous people working in the field. 10%-20% of the research is high quality. In a 5-20 year range we'll discover exactly how enormous the true impact of commensal microbes on human biology is, even if the path is not a straight one and every publication is not correct. So science goes.
- curioussavage 10y agoHuge doses of probiotics have done wonders for me.
- iaminatree 10y agoWould you mind telling me more specifically what you mean by "huge"? And do you take them in capsule form?
- costcopizza 10y agoCurious as well. I've noticed no benefit in any area with probiotics, although his post did say "huge doses".
- simplexion 10y agoAnecdotes are fun!
- hippich 10y agoI agree - I am taking Alice Foods Bifidus Best Advanced Probiotic[1], except I take 8 caps instead of recommended 2. 1) https://alicefoods.com/product/bifidus-best-advanced-probiotic/ https://alicefoods.com/product/bifidus-best-advanced-probiot...
- userium 10y agoAlso Saccharomyces boulardii is good, and it can be taken at the same time with antibiotics, unlike probiotics. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccharomyces_boulardii https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccharomyces_boulardii)
- amai 10y agoHave a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus_reuteri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus_reuteri : "...those consuming L. reuteri daily end up falling ill 50% less often, as measured by their decrease use of sick leave."
- simplexion 10y agoThat is based on a single study and not a fantastic one. I would be a bit skeptical of it.
- tmaly 10y agoI have been very curious how the use of antibiotics at a very young age has tied in with food allergies. Has anyone read or researched this topic?
- keyle 10y agoI live with IBS and although I'm better now, I was in a terrible shape for about 2.5 years. Very expensive rabbit hole of doctors and tests that lead nowhere. Long story short, this is true. Gut bacteria (an imbalance in the case of IBS) is a real thing. Never mess with your diet doing stupid stuff. Always be weary of anti-biotics. And if you're suffering a lot at the moment look up the low-fodmap diet from the Monash University. That's the only thing that really helped me.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- charlieflowers 10y agoI've had it too -- perhaps not quite as bad as you. When I cut sugar back to about 20% of former consumption, things finally got back on track for me. Anecdotal, but maybe it'll help someone.
- padwan 10y agoLots of people have the same experience as you with LCHF/Ketogenic diet
- edem 10y agoI've checked some of the diets but it is not explained why I should avoid garlic? Can you elaborate? Another problem is that by avoiding all the stuff in the "stuff to avoid" list makes dietary fibre intake problematic. How do you add more fibre to your diet if you can't eat legumes nor fruits like pear.
- nibs 10y agoAsafoetida tastes like garlic but does not ferment - replace garlic with it and then try reintroducing. Try eating raw vegetables or pho style (where the veggies cook lightly in the broth after being served but not enough to become easily fermented and soluble). What you are aiming for is high insoluble fiber and limited soluble fiber - so you can still eat things high in insoluble fiber like banana, bok choy, green beans, nuts.
- padwan 10y agohttps://www.caltech.edu/news/microbes-help-produce-serotonin-gut-46495 https://www.caltech.edu/news/microbes-help-produce-serotonin... Although serotonin is well known as a brain neurotransmitter, it is estimated that 90 percent of the body's serotonin is made in the digestive tract. In fact, altered levels of this peripheral serotonin have been linked to diseases such as irritable bowel syndrome, cardiovascular disease, and osteoporosis.