4 ms·

> Aren't most brands these days made in China or south east Asia? (looking at you, fashion brands) They are. And the highest, most expensive fashion brands are

> Aren't most brands these days made in China or south east Asia? (looking at you, fashion brands) They are. And the highest, most expensive fashion brands are still made by underpaid Chinese workers in Italy or France, so they can stick a "Made in $country" logo on the final product.

tsunamifury 10y ago
As someone who has visited the factories of Brunello Cucinelli, Kiton, and Zenga -- that is patently untrue. I saw mostly skilled craftsmen doing handwork. So either you are making this up or you definition of "highest" isn't quite on the mark.
linkregister 10y ago
This is an extraordinary claim, can you back this up in some way? I'm not from Italy or France so it isn't common knowledge to me.
- laurentdc 10y ago
  Gucci, Prada, Moncler at least. This kind of stuff was covered by the national TV for a while but no one seems to care anymore. http://articles.latimes.com/2008/feb/20/world/fg-madeinitaly20 http://articles.latimes.com/2008/feb/20/world/fg-madeinitaly... http://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2014/12/11032-gucci-and-the-chinese-workers http://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2014/12/11032-gucci-and-... http://www.inventati.org/cortocircuito/2014/12/22/gucci-prada-moncler-il-tempo-dello-sfruttamento-e-la-sostanza-del-valore/ http://www.inventati.org/cortocircuito/2014/12/22/gucci-prad... (couldn't find an english version of this one, sorry) "Sold to Gucci for €24 euros each (around $28.09) despite a retail rate of $1000, Aroldo Guidotti of the subcontractor, leather goods specialist Mondo Libero, was filmed discussing the cost saving strategy of replacing Italian workers with Chinese nationals, who are hired as part-time employees, and yet work more hours than those on a full-time contract."
  - linkregister 10y ago
    Thanks for delivering! I'm surprised this hasn't diminished the allure of Gucci et. al.
  - tsunamifury 10y ago
    Gucci, Prada, and Moncler are at best "middle tier luxury" brands. Almost everyone knows they are completely/partially made in China.
    - ehsanu1 10y ago
      Sorry, but we're the 99.999%.
- jdietrich 10y ago
  A lot of dirty tricks are played by exploiting the rules of origin. You can mark something as "Made in Italy" if the last substantial transformation of the goods occurred there. Last substantial transformation is very poorly defined, so is open to creative interpretation. You can make 95% of a handbag in China or Bangladesh, do some final stitching in Italy and perfectly legally label it as "made in Italy". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_origin The inverse manipulation is used by Pakistani manufacturers of surgical instruments. They buy stamped steel blanks from Germany, perform the labour-intensive grinding and sharpening in Pakistan, then label the instruments as "Made in Germany" by claiming that they did not undergo substantial transformation in Pakistan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaTWtz1AzPE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaTWtz1AzPE
icantdrive55 10y ago
I have a sister that makes shoes in Los Angeles. She pays all her workers minimum wage, but that only started a few years ago. The rest of the companies, who share the cobbler machinery, most do not pay minimum wage, and many don't bother to carry workman's comp. I noticed certain owners moved around a lot, and if their was an accident; you had a very nervous owner at the hospital. (The employees are 90% plus illegal aliens. All from Latin America. Most are just glad to work. After a few months, the enthusiasm wears off. I was suprised over the loyality. They just don't know, or care that they are being exploited. One or two key craftsman are paid $10 an hour, until they teach the next genuinely gifted craftsman. It seemed like 1 out of 10 had the artist/mechanical ability to earn $10hr.) I felt the owners were just taking a chance by not paying minimum wage/not paying workman's comp. The workers didn't complain. If a worker caught on to his/her rights; they were let go. I was shocked their wasen't more problems, but the workers seem content. It wasen't a sweat shop, but the shop was far from legal. She sell her shoes at a range of around $350.00 to $1500.00. (The high end shoe market is still wide open. I used to find it amazing what women spend on shoes. I'm now shocked at what men spend on sneakers. ) (I outed her because she is without morals, or ethics. Plus--no one will differentiate her from the rest of the cheaters. I always found the denial that goes into a lot of business is staggering.)
baybal2 10y ago
>underpaid Chinese workers in Italy or France Believe me or no. Italian effective tax rate for a factory business is less than that in China. Most Italian shoe and fashion goods factories in Italy are owned by Chinese these days.

tsunamifury 10y ago

As someone who has visited the factories of Brunello Cucinelli, Kiton, and Zenga -- that is patently untrue. I saw mostly skilled craftsmen doing handwork. So either you are making this up or you definition of "highest" isn't quite on the mark.

linkregister 10y ago

This is an extraordinary claim, can you back this up in some way? I'm not from Italy or France so it isn't common knowledge to me.

laurentdc 10y ago
Gucci, Prada, Moncler at least. This kind of stuff was covered by the national TV for a while but no one seems to care anymore. http://articles.latimes.com/2008/feb/20/world/fg-madeinitaly20 http://articles.latimes.com/2008/feb/20/world/fg-madeinitaly... http://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2014/12/11032-gucci-and-the-chinese-workers http://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2014/12/11032-gucci-and-... http://www.inventati.org/cortocircuito/2014/12/22/gucci-prada-moncler-il-tempo-dello-sfruttamento-e-la-sostanza-del-valore/ http://www.inventati.org/cortocircuito/2014/12/22/gucci-prad... (couldn't find an english version of this one, sorry) "Sold to Gucci for €24 euros each (around $28.09) despite a retail rate of $1000, Aroldo Guidotti of the subcontractor, leather goods specialist Mondo Libero, was filmed discussing the cost saving strategy of replacing Italian workers with Chinese nationals, who are hired as part-time employees, and yet work more hours than those on a full-time contract."
- linkregister 10y ago
  Thanks for delivering! I'm surprised this hasn't diminished the allure of Gucci et. al.
- tsunamifury 10y ago
  Gucci, Prada, and Moncler are at best "middle tier luxury" brands. Almost everyone knows they are completely/partially made in China.
  - ehsanu1 10y ago
    Sorry, but we're the 99.999%.
jdietrich 10y ago
A lot of dirty tricks are played by exploiting the rules of origin. You can mark something as "Made in Italy" if the last substantial transformation of the goods occurred there. Last substantial transformation is very poorly defined, so is open to creative interpretation. You can make 95% of a handbag in China or Bangladesh, do some final stitching in Italy and perfectly legally label it as "made in Italy". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_origin The inverse manipulation is used by Pakistani manufacturers of surgical instruments. They buy stamped steel blanks from Germany, perform the labour-intensive grinding and sharpening in Pakistan, then label the instruments as "Made in Germany" by claiming that they did not undergo substantial transformation in Pakistan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaTWtz1AzPE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaTWtz1AzPE

icantdrive55 10y ago

I have a sister that makes shoes in Los Angeles. She pays all her workers minimum wage, but that only started a few years ago. The rest of the companies, who share the cobbler machinery, most do not pay minimum wage, and many don't bother to carry workman's comp. I noticed certain owners moved around a lot, and if their was an accident; you had a very nervous owner at the hospital. (The employees are 90% plus illegal aliens. All from Latin America. Most are just glad to work. After a few months, the enthusiasm wears off. I was suprised over the loyality. They just don't know, or care that they are being exploited. One or two key craftsman are paid $10 an hour, until they teach the next genuinely gifted craftsman. It seemed like 1 out of 10 had the artist/mechanical ability to earn $10hr.) I felt the owners were just taking a chance by not paying minimum wage/not paying workman's comp. The workers didn't complain. If a worker caught on to his/her rights; they were let go. I was shocked their wasen't more problems, but the workers seem content. It wasen't a sweat shop, but the shop was far from legal. She sell her shoes at a range of around $350.00 to $1500.00. (The high end shoe market is still wide open. I used to find it amazing what women spend on shoes. I'm now shocked at what men spend on sneakers. ) (I outed her because she is without morals, or ethics. Plus--no one will differentiate her from the rest of the cheaters. I always found the denial that goes into a lot of business is staggering.)

baybal2 10y ago

>underpaid Chinese workers in Italy or France Believe me or no. Italian effective tax rate for a factory business is less than that in China. Most Italian shoe and fashion goods factories in Italy are owned by Chinese these days.