4 ms·

If you have an issue with it, maybe you should have contributed sooner.

toxican 10y ago
I'm incredibly sick of seeing this argument. Just because someone uses a piece of open source software does not mean that they A) Are obligated to contribute to it B) Are disallowed to want features or complain about the lack thereof for not doing A and C) Are even capable of contributing to it. e- analogy was weak and unneeded.
- qaq 10y ago
  You have some valid points but president analogy is not very accurate. People are paying president's salary, while majority of people using OS projects are definitely not paying the salary of the devs.
- josegonzalez 10y ago
  It also doesn't give them the right to complain that their feature took however long to land. This is like being able to vote and abstaining because you didn't like the candidates, then complaining that the candidate you didn't like was elected.
  - pikzen 10y ago
    Are we still using that godawful argument? * Not contributing and complaining about issues * Not voting and complaining about the candidate elected * Not making movies and complaining about the special effects * Not writing books and complaining about the story * Not building cars and complaining yours broke down * Not having prepared food and complaining someone served you burnt pasta and uncooked chicked * ... Common point in all of those: they're all stupid arguments. That argument has never been, is never and never will be valid. Contributing takes time. Maybe said person complaining is fixing bugs in software that you're using. Or maybe said person doesn't contribute at all to any OSS. And that's still perfectly fine, because when you put out software and present it as the second coming of the Christ (or Stallman, depending of your deity of choice), yep, you have a responsibility to fix it. Or to not fix it and to tell the users to sod off. Users have absolutely every right to complain. As a maintainer, you have every right to ignore them.
- tomtheelder 10y ago
  Complaining about the lack of a feature in a FOSS project that you haven't contributed to is kind of a dick move, though, and it's extremely discouraging to developers. If they violate community standards or put users at risk (breaking semver, insecure elements, malware, etc.) then you have the right to complain, but otherwise you really ought to remain civil and positive. Politely requesting features is fine, but complaining about a lack of features in software that you don't contribute to with effort or money is extremely rude and pretty much a slap to the face for the developers who work on the project.
  - JetSetWilly 10y ago
    Atom is developed by paid professionals at github, it isn't really a community led project like emacs. Not that that matters, because nothing is immune from criticism, free or otherwise. It is a useful service to provide criticism, in fact, it can be useful to the developers and also useful to potential users - although it doesn't have to be.
    - Klathmon 10y ago
      yes but "look at how long it took them to add X feature!" isn't useful critisim, it's a put-down. The product isn't going to improve because the developers felt worse about finally getting a requested feature in.
    - FooBarWidget 10y ago
      There is a difference between providing useful, constructive criticism and rude complaining.
      - JetSetWilly 10y ago
        Pointing out that the technology platform chosen makes features simple elsewhere into multi-year odysseys seems fine to me. I think maybe atom users are too close to it, so have heard such things before and react very negatively to it. For me it was interesting to learn it took significant work to provide this support.
cbcoutinho 10y ago
FWIW, what I understand from the release notes is that it seems to have been an upstream issue with Chrome 52, not atom itself
- nathancahill 10y ago
  So the real issue is building a text editor on top of a browser?
- tomatsu 10y ago
  The problem was that they used Ctrl + Alt for shortcuts, which is something you simply not do on Windows. Ctrl + Alt is the same as AltGr and there are keyboards without a right Alt key. AltGr + X looks like Ctrl + Alt + X, because that's what some people have to press. They are meant to be the same thing. Chrome merely happened to implement that part of the UI Events spec (it's still a draft) which lets you differentiate between Ctrl + Alt and AltGr. https://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/#code-examples https://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/#code-examples The Atom team simply could have changed their default shortcuts 2.5 years ago. Those shortcuts were the actual bug.
Derbasti 10y ago
there were workarounds...
- JorgeGT 10y ago
  Most didn't work until 1.12. For example, keybindings featuring {

I'm incredibly sick of seeing this argument. Just because someone uses a piece of open source software does not mean that they A) Are obligated to contribute to it B) Are disallowed to want features or complain about the lack thereof for not doing A and C) Are even capable of contributing to it. e- analogy was weak and unneeded.

qaq 10y ago
You have some valid points but president analogy is not very accurate. People are paying president's salary, while majority of people using OS projects are definitely not paying the salary of the devs.
josegonzalez 10y ago
It also doesn't give them the right to complain that their feature took however long to land. This is like being able to vote and abstaining because you didn't like the candidates, then complaining that the candidate you didn't like was elected.
- pikzen 10y ago
  Are we still using that godawful argument? * Not contributing and complaining about issues * Not voting and complaining about the candidate elected * Not making movies and complaining about the special effects * Not writing books and complaining about the story * Not building cars and complaining yours broke down * Not having prepared food and complaining someone served you burnt pasta and uncooked chicked * ... Common point in all of those: they're all stupid arguments. That argument has never been, is never and never will be valid. Contributing takes time. Maybe said person complaining is fixing bugs in software that you're using. Or maybe said person doesn't contribute at all to any OSS. And that's still perfectly fine, because when you put out software and present it as the second coming of the Christ (or Stallman, depending of your deity of choice), yep, you have a responsibility to fix it. Or to not fix it and to tell the users to sod off. Users have absolutely every right to complain. As a maintainer, you have every right to ignore them.
tomtheelder 10y ago
Complaining about the lack of a feature in a FOSS project that you haven't contributed to is kind of a dick move, though, and it's extremely discouraging to developers. If they violate community standards or put users at risk (breaking semver, insecure elements, malware, etc.) then you have the right to complain, but otherwise you really ought to remain civil and positive. Politely requesting features is fine, but complaining about a lack of features in software that you don't contribute to with effort or money is extremely rude and pretty much a slap to the face for the developers who work on the project.
- JetSetWilly 10y ago
  Atom is developed by paid professionals at github, it isn't really a community led project like emacs. Not that that matters, because nothing is immune from criticism, free or otherwise. It is a useful service to provide criticism, in fact, it can be useful to the developers and also useful to potential users - although it doesn't have to be.
  - Klathmon 10y ago
    yes but "look at how long it took them to add X feature!" isn't useful critisim, it's a put-down. The product isn't going to improve because the developers felt worse about finally getting a requested feature in.
  - FooBarWidget 10y ago
    There is a difference between providing useful, constructive criticism and rude complaining.
    - JetSetWilly 10y ago
      Pointing out that the technology platform chosen makes features simple elsewhere into multi-year odysseys seems fine to me. I think maybe atom users are too close to it, so have heard such things before and react very negatively to it. For me it was interesting to learn it took significant work to provide this support.

cbcoutinho 10y ago

FWIW, what I understand from the release notes is that it seems to have been an upstream issue with Chrome 52, not atom itself

nathancahill 10y ago
So the real issue is building a text editor on top of a browser?
tomatsu 10y ago
The problem was that they used Ctrl + Alt for shortcuts, which is something you simply not do on Windows. Ctrl + Alt is the same as AltGr and there are keyboards without a right Alt key. AltGr + X looks like Ctrl + Alt + X, because that's what some people have to press. They are meant to be the same thing. Chrome merely happened to implement that part of the UI Events spec (it's still a draft) which lets you differentiate between Ctrl + Alt and AltGr. https://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/#code-examples https://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/#code-examples The Atom team simply could have changed their default shortcuts 2.5 years ago. Those shortcuts were the actual bug.

Derbasti 10y ago

there were workarounds...

JorgeGT 10y ago
Most didn't work until 1.12. For example, keybindings featuring {