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I was in scouts and cadets here in New Zealand when I was a teenager and continue to spend a fair amount of time in the outdoors (I also did Outward Bound when
by toomanybeersies 10y ago
I was in scouts and cadets here in New Zealand when I was a teenager and continue to spend a fair amount of time in the outdoors (I also did Outward Bound when I was 16), and I can definitely relate to the researcher's findings.
When you're 2 days walk from civilisation, it's pissing down with rain, and you're cold, wet, hungry, and tired, you get a different perspective on life and the "soft" challenges that you face in life back home.
By "soft" challenges I mean things that aren't really life threatening, if you fail to pay the bills, you aren't going to die. If you get soaking wet and get hypothermia in the bush, you could very well die (although it's very unlikely in a structured environment like scouts).
I used to ignore problems that I didn't like, and more or less wait for them to go away, this approach obviously didn't work too well. One thing that spending a lot of time in the outdoors did was teach me that when you're in the shit, the only thing that you can do is keep on going forward. When it's dark and cold, and you're tired and your feet hurt, sitting down and resting and waiting isn't going to help you, you need to keep on walking to the hut. And there's nobody else who's going to help you; you can't phone a friend and get them to do the walking for you.
The teamwork skills you learn are different to the ones you learn in a soft environment too. Everyone works together for a group benefit, because you're all stuck there together.
I've never served in the military, but from the people I know that have, they pretty much learn to take the same attitude. I think that these experiences are something that everyone should have exposure to earlier in life. I've had some experiences where I was absolutely miserable at the time, but in retrospect have been very powerful character building and learning experiences. I spent a week cold and wet in the rain, with a wet tent and a wet sleeping bag on Outward Bound and for 2 nights I was sleeping on an open sailboat and managed about 3 hours of sleep total, I hated it at the time, but it was one of the most character building experiences of my life in retrospect.
- JoeAltmaier 10y agoThis! Its about being responsible for yourself. That teaches worlds of healthy attitude. One of my Scouts likes long-range bicycling (mountains, centuries etc). He had engraved on the headset of his bike "There's only one way to get home" to remind himself that its all up to him.
- throwaway1892 10y agoOne thing that I got from my time as a scout is to live and work with people I can't stand, which is something that has helped me a lot since that time.
- moyta 10y agoDefinitely, even if you hate them you have to work with the rest of your patrol and make your situation as good as possible, whether that be by stringing up tarps, building tripods to hang your stuff on, making an axe yard, or caring for Mike who is having yet another asthma attack/seizure/hypothermia/etc. I was lucky enough to be in a large, non-religous troop that happened to have a bus & be very well organized (4 Junior Assistant Scoutmasters!), definitely a great experience, only wish I had gotten further than life.
- gonzo 10y agoAs a former SM, the goals (Aims) of Scouting do not include getting young men to the rank of Eagle. The aims of Scouting are: Character development Citizenship training Physical fitness The methods used to achieve these aims: http://www.nesa.org/methods.html http://www.nesa.org/methods.html Learning to live with others is one of the things achieved via the patrol method. This tends to develop citizenship.
- Angostura 10y agoBear in mind that this was a study of those participating in U.K. Scouting which is different in many respects to the American organisation
- timthorn 10y agoAnd UK Scouting was very different 40 years ago to how it is today - relevant as this study looks at outcomes for those born in 1958
- joakes 10y agoNot to take away from scouts, but I feel like this study could apply to any group that a child decides to stick with and learn from. Sports teach resilience and the like, as well does joining a music group. My club soccer team during high school was unbeaten for most seasons and ended up state champions, but most of us didn't hangout afterwards or even like each other.
- mfukar 10y ago> if you fail to pay the bills, you aren't going to die. I don't know where you live, but in certain places failing to pay your bills means you end up in the cold rain with nothing to eat.
- wayn3 10y agoNot in europe.
- r1k 10y agoWell, that depends where in Europe.
- wayn3 10y agothe top left side. you're not going to freeze to death in southern italy
- arethuza 10y agoBeing from the top left of Europe and having suffered the consequences of making bad assumptions about weather in Italy in winter ("It's Italy, must be warm") I'd always check. For example, you might quite easily freeze to death at the top of Mount Etna! (And/or burned to death).
- silversmith 10y agoThis comment made me think back to my childhood. I've never been in any organized outdoor/military groups, but a phrase I heard a whole lot while growing up was "you have to". Things like doing chores or homework were not presented as "should", but rather "have to". My protests were usually met with "yes, we hear you, but you still have to". Pissed me off to no end back then, but in retrospect has been highly valuable in teaching the same attitude towards problems - they don't just go away on their own.
- boothead 10y agoYou are correct - these are the lessons you learn in the military too. I've only recently been noticing how applicable the lessons I learned in the Royal Marines are to software development. Thanks for putting it so eloquently.
- chiph 10y ago> I've never served in the military, but from the people I know that have, they pretty much learn to take the same attitude. The phrase used in the US military for this is "Embrace the suck". Which means "The situation is bad, but deal with it."
- secfirstmd 10y agoIn Ireland we mostly called it "Improvise, adapt, overcome."
- stvswn 10y agoAs an Eagle Scout and former Army officer, one of my enduring life lessons has been "false motivation is better than no motivation." When you're cold, wet, and tired it helps to pretend you love it. It's infectious, too. It is actually a good feeling when you realize you're not as fragile as you thought you were. "I would have thought that I'd be miserable in this situation, but I'm actually OK" is a good thought to have.
- istorical 10y agoThe same mechanism is probably why studies show that forcing a smile even when you don't feel happy can lead you to slowly become happier. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/smile-it-could-make-you-happier/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/smile-it-could-ma...
- capnrefsmmat 10y agoThis result has been cast into doubt by a recent replication attempt, which failed to find any such forced-smile effect. https://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/StrackRRR_manuscript_accepted.pdf https://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/StrackRRR_manuscrip...
- hueving 10y agoSimilar to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
- bayesian_horse 10y agoI was constantly bullied and harassed in my youth. Anything that was like scouts/guides was even worse. I'm certain I brought it on myself by being different and socially inept, but this bullying certainly didn't benefit my mental health.
- bootload 10y ago"When you're 2 days walk from civilisation, it's pissing down with rain, and you're cold, wet, hungry, and tired, you get a different perspective on life and the "soft" challenges that you face in life back home." Milford?
- toomanybeersies 10y agoPretty much anywhere in New Zealand you can be 2 days walk from civilisation.
- bootload 10y ago"anywhere in New Zealand you can be 2 days walk from civilisation" good point.