7 ms·

For young kids this is awesome but Japanese young adults are not nearly as independent as western kids. It is far from uncommon for 20 somethibugs to choose to

For young kids this is awesome but Japanese young adults are not nearly as independent as western kids. It is far from uncommon for 20 somethibugs to choose to live at home even into the their 30s. Where does the system fail from this great stuff as 3-6 year olds vs the 18-30 year olds?

brandelune 10y ago
It does not fail. It's the expected outcome. Young people don't get "legal" independence until they get married. By "legal" independence I mean they don't have a personal register (koseki) until they have to leave the family register, which can basically only happen by marrying. Besides, leaving at one's parents is not equal to be dependent, it is economically sound and young people who have entered the work force may live in the same place as their parents but few share much more than that.
- mattnumbe 10y ago
  I type too slow...
mattnumbe 10y ago
Japanese 18-30 year olds are also in a lot less debt. It's part of the Japanese culture to live with your parents until marriage and it has nothing to do with independence. There are also plenty of young people who move into expensive tiny single bedroom apartments in Tokyo for work purposes. But who would want to do that when you can live in a private wing of your parents house for free? Most young people spend their social time outside of their houses anyway (house parties in the west vs karaoke parties in Japan). It just ends up being a place to eat and sleep.
- toyg 10y ago
  Funny that: a classic Italian complaint from parents of 20somethings still living at home is "This house is not a hotel!" - i.e. a place where to eat and sleep.
  - raarts 10y ago
    But wouldn't that be specifically used against kids not contributing to the household by not doing any chores or not bringing in any money?
    - toyg 10y ago
      It's more about getting home at odd hours just to eat, not talking much and not having a relationship with your parents.
  - moyta 10y ago
    Hah, I've heard that stateside on many occasions, I think it may have been a line in Malcolm in the Middle at one point too.
GarvielLoken 10y ago
It is the same in Italy and Spain. Part culture, part crowded housing market.
77pt77 10y ago
>but Japanese young adults are not nearly as independent as western kids. You can totally see this while travelling. Very few japanese youngsters travel abroad and even fewer do so alone. This is in contrast with say young Koreans. I meet those in droves usually either alone or groups of 2/3. I don't understand what happens between childhood independence and hikikomori but something definitely happens.
TorKlingberg 10y ago
Well, the idea that everyone should move out at 18 is somewhat unique to north-west Europe and North America. In many parts of the world it is normal for young adults to live with their parents until there is a practical reason to move out. Living alone for no apparent reason may be seen as economically wasteful or as fleeing from a dysfunctional family.
codedokode 10y ago
Is not it because the rent is very expensive in Japan?
- TulliusCicero 10y ago
  Average rent in Tokyo is about 97,000 yen/month (~$911): http://resources.realestate.co.jp/buy/what-is-the-average-rent-in-tokyo/ http://resources.realestate.co.jp/buy/what-is-the-average-re... Granted that's for a relatively tiny space, but still, not that expensive, and that's probably the most expensive metro.
  - codedokode 10y ago
    A part-time job salary is about 850-1200 yen/hr [1]. So the rent is pretty high. And there are additional payments (like key money, deposit money, insurance money) one has to pay upfront. [1] http://baito.mynavi.jp/kanto/area_13/kodawari_6/ http://baito.mynavi.jp/kanto/area_13/kodawari_6/
    - TulliusCicero 10y ago
      The minimum wage in NYC is similar, but the average rent is like 3x as high: https://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-new-york-rent-trends/?utm_expid=16614331-20.Ke2Q5D_qQCWxND2fzMEPkA.0 https://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-new-york-rent-tre...
      - hx87 10y ago
        In addition, until recently those tiny apartments would have been illegal.
      - jandrese 10y ago
        Isn't the average NYC rent blown by a relative glut of stupidly overpriced Manhattan apartments blowing the curve? I don't know how Tokyo's market compares, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are some different dynamics at work.

brandelune 10y ago

It does not fail. It's the expected outcome. Young people don't get "legal" independence until they get married. By "legal" independence I mean they don't have a personal register (koseki) until they have to leave the family register, which can basically only happen by marrying. Besides, leaving at one's parents is not equal to be dependent, it is economically sound and young people who have entered the work force may live in the same place as their parents but few share much more than that.

mattnumbe 10y ago
I type too slow...

mattnumbe 10y ago

Japanese 18-30 year olds are also in a lot less debt. It's part of the Japanese culture to live with your parents until marriage and it has nothing to do with independence. There are also plenty of young people who move into expensive tiny single bedroom apartments in Tokyo for work purposes. But who would want to do that when you can live in a private wing of your parents house for free? Most young people spend their social time outside of their houses anyway (house parties in the west vs karaoke parties in Japan). It just ends up being a place to eat and sleep.

toyg 10y ago
Funny that: a classic Italian complaint from parents of 20somethings still living at home is "This house is not a hotel!" - i.e. a place where to eat and sleep.
- raarts 10y ago
  But wouldn't that be specifically used against kids not contributing to the household by not doing any chores or not bringing in any money?
  - toyg 10y ago
    It's more about getting home at odd hours just to eat, not talking much and not having a relationship with your parents.
- moyta 10y ago
  Hah, I've heard that stateside on many occasions, I think it may have been a line in Malcolm in the Middle at one point too.

GarvielLoken 10y ago

It is the same in Italy and Spain. Part culture, part crowded housing market.

77pt77 10y ago

>but Japanese young adults are not nearly as independent as western kids. You can totally see this while travelling. Very few japanese youngsters travel abroad and even fewer do so alone. This is in contrast with say young Koreans. I meet those in droves usually either alone or groups of 2/3. I don't understand what happens between childhood independence and hikikomori but something definitely happens.

TorKlingberg 10y ago

Well, the idea that everyone should move out at 18 is somewhat unique to north-west Europe and North America. In many parts of the world it is normal for young adults to live with their parents until there is a practical reason to move out. Living alone for no apparent reason may be seen as economically wasteful or as fleeing from a dysfunctional family.

codedokode 10y ago

Is not it because the rent is very expensive in Japan?

TulliusCicero 10y ago
Average rent in Tokyo is about 97,000 yen/month (~$911): http://resources.realestate.co.jp/buy/what-is-the-average-rent-in-tokyo/ http://resources.realestate.co.jp/buy/what-is-the-average-re... Granted that's for a relatively tiny space, but still, not that expensive, and that's probably the most expensive metro.
- codedokode 10y ago
  A part-time job salary is about 850-1200 yen/hr [1]. So the rent is pretty high. And there are additional payments (like key money, deposit money, insurance money) one has to pay upfront. [1] http://baito.mynavi.jp/kanto/area_13/kodawari_6/ http://baito.mynavi.jp/kanto/area_13/kodawari_6/
  - TulliusCicero 10y ago
    The minimum wage in NYC is similar, but the average rent is like 3x as high: https://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-new-york-rent-trends/?utm_expid=16614331-20.Ke2Q5D_qQCWxND2fzMEPkA.0 https://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-new-york-rent-tre...
    - hx87 10y ago
      In addition, until recently those tiny apartments would have been illegal.
    - jandrese 10y ago
      Isn't the average NYC rent blown by a relative glut of stupidly overpriced Manhattan apartments blowing the curve? I don't know how Tokyo's market compares, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are some different dynamics at work.